Interesting query and reply about THE CROSS on Bart Ehrman's blog

Terry

kleenmaint July 5, 2014

Dear Bart:

I couldn’t find a topic on Josephus so I hope you see my question. In your book “Did Jesus Exist” on page 59 you quote (Antiquities 18.3.3).

Both this quotation and the more conservative version that seemed more plausible as his original writing have one very fundamental flaw that you didn’t mention. I of course am asking for your opinion. I’m no expert, but my understanding is that the word “cross” would be a dead give away that this is an interpolation.

The Romans used upright torture stakes not crosses. If this is true then these couldn’t be Josephus words.

Hope you see this. I would like to know. Please forgive me if you address this later on as I have just started reading your book. I am so thankful for your books and the integrity and courage you have demonstrated by exposing these apparent myths to the “light of day”.

Ron

(reply)

Bart Ehrman July 6, 2014
No, the term cross (Greek: σταυρος: STAUROS) is the term used in all our sources for the crucifix used by Romans; I don’t know of any references to it being simply an upright stake

Band on the Run

Yea!

givemejustalittlemoretime

They used both depending on what kind of pain you want to input

opusdei1972

STAUROS had the primary meaning of a simple pole in Homer's times (eight centuries before Christ). But in Jesus days it could be t-shaped, T-shaped, I-shaped and X-shaped. Any honest research would conclude that. Also, Romans generaly placed the patibulum ( a pole) as a crossbar at the vertical stake of the CRUX. Of course, when there were many convicted ones to be tortured, romans had to use one pole on account of the limited numbers of woods.

PSacramento

The Epistle of Barnabas ( respected enough to be included in the Codex Sinaiticus) states that the cross Jesus was crucified on was in the shape of the letter "TAU", "T".

Heaven

Bazinga!

Splash

PSacramento The Epistle of Barnabas (respected enough to be included in the Codex Sinaiticus) states that the cross Jesus was crucified on was in the shape of the letter "TAU", "T".

Would that be a sTAUros then?

Splash

sir82

Ehrman's being polite, but I'm sure he's thinking "What utter idiot would ever dream up that Romans used 'upright torture stakes'?"

Exhibit A on why the WTS doesn't want individual JWs on the internet "defending the faith". They'd be embarrassed, humiliated, and degraded within 3 minutes.

L3G

Not that I believe the stake thing, but just to be fair, the Swedish scholar Gunnar Samulson published a book 4 years ago that has caused some controversy on the matter. Perhaps Ehrman is unaware of it, or just doesn't give it much credence. But maybe he should have at least mentioned the book.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/jesus-christ-died-cross-scholar/story?id=11066130

http://earliestchristianity.wordpress.com/2010/07/16/gunnar-samuelsson-swedish-crucifixion-scholar-has-a-website/

There are dozens of other links to this if you do a google search. No offense to Ehrman, but the now "inactive" (yikes, a JW term applied to a forum member here!) Leolaia did the best research on this right here on JW.net years ago.

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/92381/1/The-facts-on-crucifixion-stauros-and-the-torture-stake#.VA8hB1b-vwI

Pistoff

There is this newer (?) piece from Leolaia; long and superbly documented, it demolishes the WT argument for an upright stake.

http://freeminds2.org/?s=Leolaia

Edited:

Sorry, I guess it is nearly the same post; there is an added paragraph at the beginning for sure, wondering if there is more in the post on Freeminds2.org

Interesting query and reply about THE CROSS on Bart Ehrman's blog

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