Serious problems with Gospel of John, and his Revelation

by Pinku 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Pinku

  1) John presents a Jesus who is totally different from other Gospels

  2) John’s claim of Jesus being partial to him undermines Jesus’s own teaching (Mathew 5:44-48)

  3) John’s claim of first miracle (changing the water into wine) and the last (or most spectacular) miracle of resurrecting Lazarus are not known to earlier Gospel writers---something impossible for them to miss!

  4) Jesus reserved no special privilege to Peter (Luke 12:9; Mark 8:38); yet John knows nothing about this, but goes ahead and presents Jesus as having given him the most imporatant post itself (John 21:15-17) which foreshadowed the present papal post!

  5) John writes verses that have no meaning at all—1:1; 3:13; 11:26 …

  6) David who was a king of LUST and who took his lust even to his death bed (1King 1:1-4) is presented in the Revelation in good light (Rev 22:16)

  7) John does not even know what are the 12 tribes of Israel (Joseph and Levi were not there in the original Tribe)—Rev 7:4-8 (JWs may say it is about Spritual Tribes; yet John speaks about literal Israel in Rev 7:4. If 7:4 is about symbolic, would not 12000 x 12000 = 144000 also be symbolic?)

  What a miserable condition JWs find themselves in with their major teachings like “other sheep” and “144,000” being rooted in John’s works!
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  prologos

  he does not know about a governing body either, operating as the FADS in the Lords day, the invisible rule that began in 1914, because

  the 7 congregations are reporting directly to the reigning king jesus, not to branch and then head quarters.
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  rory-ks

  Here's an alternative take on Revelation and the Gospel of John.
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  designs

  The mysteries of Revelation were all revealed in Cleveland Ohio....... :D
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  opusdei1972

  In fact, Revelation and the Gospel of John could hardly be written by the same author.

  John 3:13 is an interesting verse, because it shows how "reliable" is the NT:

  No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man (John 3:13)

  However, some manuscripts added: "who is in heaven".
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  Phizzy

  Agreed Opus, the writers of the two books are two different people, in all probability neither being the Apostle John. The consensus is that Revelation was written in the late 90's of the 1st Century, and the Gospel of John some 20 or so years later.

  Any study should not conflate the two.
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  Band on the Run

  I read Elaine Pagels new book on Revelation this past year. She had quite a bit of objective facts that I never realized it. None of these are receent developments. She said the author of Revelation is opposed to Paul. He is a Super Jew who believes keeping the law is paramount. I never knew it but most of the church fathers present for canonization of scriptures found Revelation a serious embarassment and voted to keep it out. They just did not vote. Their fellow bishops were lobbied vigorously to exclude Revelation. Within a few years of writing Revelation, nothing in the prophecy came true. Its opposite came true. Rome endorsed Christianity. The persecuted were now princes of Rome. Bishops went from exile to residence in majestic palaces.

  Egypt was the most influential Christian community at the time. A dispute over theology and obedience involving the great hermit, St. Anthony, and the Bishop of Alexandria, Athansisus, became heated. Anthony and thousands of monks wanted a loose allegiance with the urban bishops. St. Athansius wanted absolute obedience. It was important to crush Anthony. He used Revelation to cast the apostate monks as Rome.

  I just happened to hear her on NPR. Half the audience seemed to be calling and correcting her with their no knowledge of Bible or history. It was interesting to observe what she did. Basically, she kept to her script, refusing to engage them. I always wondered what her personal background was. She was not an active Christian when I knew her. A classmate said she was Buddhist. She started attending church after her husband died in a mountaineering accident.
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  metatron

  And Revelation is written in bad Greek.

  It's a train of sentence fragments connected by the word "and".

  Once you know this, reading Revelation can drive you nuts. ( 'and.....and..... and....and...')

  metatron
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  Bart Belteshassur

  Pinku - Are you sure that John did not know who the trbes from the sons Israel were? I hope your not getting confussed with the Divisions of 3s for the Exodus encampment and registration for military service. Remeber that Levi was placed in the centre of the camp, total 13 , and Levites were exempt from military service due to their temple duties. In reality John only lists 11 because Manasseh is only half a tribe and Joseph can only be the other half tribe.

  The real question here is why did John choose to include Manasseh when they would fall under Joseph, and exclude Dan? It is worth noting that the order that these tribes are placed in reflects the order which they are placed around the gates of the temple in the new Jerusalem from the base of the west side clockwise.

  Metatron - Have you consider the use of "and" as a full stop, that way it seperates the phrases and gives each part individual meaning as stand alone statements. It completely changes the way you understand text. Just a thought, btw read it in the greek as it is written not as translated with added meaning or implication.

  BB
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  Crazyguy

  One thing I found interesting is in Luke Jesus says do not follow anyone that proclaims the time is near. Then in revelation the writer proclaims the time is near several times, 5 alone in the last chapter. Talk about a serious contradiction.