I had an encounter today...

by lriddle80 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • lriddle80
    lriddle80

    So, I had an unexpected encounter with a JW today. She was the caregiver who came to work to relieve me and she pulled out a JW.Org tract and I told her I knew all about it because my family were part of it and I see it everywhere on their FB. I, without thinking about the consequences, told her that I used to be one and now go to a baptist church. We got into an intense discussion where I told her that we, at the foundation, believe that the only way to salvation is Jesus and he is the truth and with that we can worship shoulder to shoulder and Jehovah would accept us both. She kept going back to celebrating Christmas, believing in the trinity. I asked her if Jesus forgives her when she lies everyday or lusts everyday and she said she saw where I was going. I kept bringing Jesus up as the only way to salvation. And she kept pushing him aside and I kept mentioning that that is the most important thing and he shouldn't be pushed aside. I said that serving Jehovah shouldn't be put in a box and that I am so happy to have the freedom to express my worship to him any way that I wanted. I had this conversation: So, the only way to lose weight is through diet and exercise, correct? Yes, she said. Ok, the only way to salvation is through Jesus, right? Yes. Is there only 1 way to diet? No. Is there only 1 kind of exercise? No. Ok, then there are many ways to worship and many ways to serve, not just going door to door. Helping the poor, clothing the needy. If I even give a cup of cold water to a child in Jesus' name, that is worship. I told her that serving others is our work and she was so quick to point out that we have to serve Jehovah and I quickly said we serve Jehovah by serving others and she admitted that was the commandment. I told about different scriptures and she did not. But she did wish she had her bible.

    Now, admittedly, I felt attacked (from the years of my family attacking my faith) and so I became defensive probably to the point that she felt threatened. But she would laugh at me and say "WOOOW" I can't believe you knew the truth (which I quickly said Jesus is the truth) and are choosing a different path.

    I hated it because it was like talking to brick wall. I hated it because I couldn't convince her that my worship was acceptable also. I liked it because I spoke the gospel with boldness!

    I left there, running, saying to myself that I hate them. I prayed today that God would transform my mind to start to forgive them. But to forgive a species that will not change and will always see me as inferior, that's going to take some effort and a lot of prayer. I did realize that I spend half my energy thinking I am inferior and trying to prove to people that I am just as good as they are.

    So 2 things happened from it: I am going to accept that I am good enough, and that I need to forgive them. Once and for all!! And, also, don't engage a brick wall.

  • lriddle80
    lriddle80

    Oh, and after she was talking about the paganism of christmas, I told her that our days of the week and calendar were of pagan origin, but she didn't mind writing the days on her papers. She said she'd have to look that up.

  • Listener
    Listener

    I hate it too, when they think they are the only right ones and then go on about certain doctrines such as xmas or the trinity. They prove themselves all the time that they have also been wrong and readily accept this and do not allow others this flexibility.

    You are doing the right thing by turning the other cheek by being graceful in forgiving them. They do not understand the hypocrysy of what they are doing.

  • Perry
    Perry

    I kept bringing Jesus up as the only way to salvation. And she kept pushing him aside and I kept mentioning that that is the most important thing and he shouldn't be pushed aside..... But she would laugh at me and say "WOOOW" I can't believe you knew the truth (which I quickly said Jesus is the truth)

    Wow, that is powerful. DO NOT underestimate the seeds you plant. The way the kingdom of God works - is that you do not get confirmation on the effects of your acts of obedience most of the time.

    I am where I am today because a lady at a door took the time to expalin to me that Christians believe in a paradise earth nearly the same as the Watchtower teaches. After she told me that, and after I brought up Christmas and a couple other ridiculous things, I realized that I was just attacking a woman who believed virtually the same thing I did, minus the ORG and plus Jesus. I didn't have a reason for going door to door anymore if Christians already new about the paradise earth. I walked away from that door feeling shame for the first time, as a Watchtower water boy.

    I'll never forget that woman, and she may even feel she has failed in some way as a Christian. Isn't that funny?

  • BucketShopBill
    BucketShopBill

    Perry, have you ever posted your story how you became a Christian after leaving the publishing company that try's to hide the glorious name of Jesus Christ?

    Iriddle, in the eyes of die-hard Jehovah's Witness, there is no acceptable way to worship God if your not using the Governing Body as your Intercessor. As shown by many of the Ex-Watchtower Thinkers(they have posted the Watchtower writers equating unconditional obedience to the magazine as worship of God!) they are now elevating the Watchtower's words with God-the-Father in a most sneaky and sinister fashion. You did great with all your apologetics, great job my friend! I use to argue, debate and read all the WTs works from 1960 Bound Volumes to 2004 when something stopped sounding right. My first trip was reading Greg Stafford departure from the Organization, I was shocked a man who I loved as a brother and friend, along with other of his JW friends lost our WMD! Lies abound that Greg tried to start his own church, that's far from the truth, Greg is like you, his head started to spin because he could not believe he tried to defend a religion that's not defendable, doctrines they produce are conjecture!

    I appreciated you calmness, you well know JWs get angry when you put them on the spot, when I first started using the name of Jesus Christ my sister accused me of apostasy! My mother who has never shared any Bible thoughts with my kids was quick to hear my children use the name of Jesus Christ and she started to panic. What is so deadly about the name of Jesus Christ that it scares JWs? The Bible is the "two edged sword", if God does not want us to use Jesus Christ's name, than why did he honor his Son with the highest reward posible?

    "Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name" Phil 2:9

    Matthew 28:18
    Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

    John 17:11
    I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name, the name you gave me, so that they may be one as we are one.

    John 17:12
    While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled.

    Acts 2:33
    Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear.

    Ephesians 1:10
    to be put into effect when the times reach their fulfillment--to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.

    Ephesians 1:21
    far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come.

    2 Thessalonians 1:12
    We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Hebrews 1:9
    You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy."

    http://biblehub.com/philippians/2-9.htm

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I don't tell JWs I used to be one. I truthfully tell them that I have family members who are JWs. I don't argue with them. There is a pioneer couple that comes into where I work. They smile when they see me. They have a good level of comfort with me. They will talk to me and ask me questions. They don't feel threatened by me because they don't know I ever studied or was baptized. I have empathy for them because I once stood where they stand. I see the human side of it all. If they ask me questions, I give them well thought out answers. Hopefully they will think about the answers.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Well done Iriddle80, and well done FHN !

    I have not had any success with making JW's think, as far as I know. It may be impossible to get through at all with some, I shuddered at the total lack of comprehension when the JW lady said " Wow, I can't believe you knew the truth and chose a different path ".

    It's a little like the Elder I spoke to a while ago, I said I had examined the evidence for the truth of the WT doctrines, and found them wanting. He said "Well I looked at the evidence and came to eaxactly the opposite conclusion, isn't that funny ?". (I'm a bit surprised that after that conversation, two Elders were present, I have not been asked to DA or something, but hey ho, I seem to have got away with it).

    Of course I pointed out that he hadn't looked at the evidence I had, because he is not allowed to, but his mindset was, we both think we have it right, so its a stand-off. It is such a difficult task to actually prise open a closed mind.

    I do believe though that we add to the Cognitive Dissonance of JW's evey time we give them some real truth, so it may help them to make changes in the future, I do hope so.

    Part of the problem is that when JW's read or hear scriptures they really do chnage the meaning in their own mind, i.e " I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" becomes in their mind as they read those words of Jesus, " JW.Org is the way the truth and the life".

    Very sad.

  • rjharris
    rjharris

    It is not the job of "true" disciples of Christ to convince anyone of anything. It is not possible to convince someone of something if their minds are already set to believe a certain way. This is not just with Jehovah's Witnesses but persons of all religions because each one thinks his way or religion is the right one or the right way.

    True disciples of Christ - those truly taught by him - cast seeds of truth before persons. We speak with them (and listen to them) with a view of not trying to convince them or win arguments, but to "plant' seeds of truth.

    I know of no human who has the power to make a seed grow. How can they? No human created seeds. Thus, the teachings of Christ are not created by men, they belong to Christ. We carry his teachings (seeds) in our proverbial bag and we spread them by speaking truth to others. Truth is not an easy thing to accept and digest.

    It is the owner and source of the seeds (teachings of Christ) that will do the convincing; that is make those seeds grow within a person. Once the seed has been implanted (heard), God through His Son will make it grow.

    Too many are stumbled because they think it is all about winning arguments or convincing others to join them. They completely miss the boat. We never see Christ sweating over trying to convince someone. He simply spoke the truth because he knew that His Father would be the one to make the truth grow. Once it grows in person A, it is given to person B, person B to person C.

    Religious organization today stands up to dupe everyone into this "us versus them" mentality and "we are right and they are wrong mentality." They are misleading millions with such mentalities and it creates divisions, distrust and hatreds among persons.

    Once a person somes to know the truth about God and Christ, they will be able to speak the hard truth to others; and most will not like the truth spoken because in a world accustomed to error and lies, the truth is a painful thing to hear.

    Yet, it is God who will make the truth grow. No disciple of Christ should sweat it or try to convince anyone of anything. We are to be nothing but planters and waterers of truth, God will take care of the rest and you can take that to the bank. Watering is giving our personal attention to those who thirst for more of what Christ taught us. The more "attention" one give to others seeking the truth, the more attention God will give to the waterer. He will be made fat with the truth.

    The Proverb 11:25 says;

    "The generous soul will itself be made fat, and the one freely watering [others] will himself also be freely watered."

    The Apostle Paul at 1Cor 3:6 says:

    "I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept making grow; so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow."

  • designs
    designs

    "to forgive a species that will not change" Iriddle80 you actually thought that.

  • cultBgone
    cultBgone

    Isn't it bizarre...if jdbubs think you are a clean slate (worldly-person-maybe-we-can-convert-them!) they are Polite and Smiling and willing to talk (but-we-just-ignore-whatever-you-say-as-we're-so-busy-trying-to-remember-what-we're-supposed-to-teach-you-as-you-are-pagan).

    If they know or even suspect that you have any knowledge of their teachings, they are Horrified (omg-must-be-an-apostate-yes-they-are-mentally-diseased-quick-run-or-mock-them-and-haha-you're-gonna-die-so-I-can-have-your-fancy-house) that you have not jumped in the sinking jdub ship.

    Fake love to you in the first case, fake love to the gb/god-j/jesus/or-whoever's-in-charge-now in the second. The poor dears don't know WHO they are anymore and are just following orders.

    The hardest part is remembering how WE escaped and then finding ways to plant those seeds in the closed-off brains.

    So very sad to see so many wasted lives.

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