JWs: not creationists but believe in creation...

by TheStumbler 56 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  TheStumbler

  so do you guys think I was rude? If I was I think I need to hear it from you guys.

  i think part of the problem is culture. He lives in a world where nothing can be questioned and obedience is a virtue. I believe in questioning everything even ones own beliefs. I believe in a free and frank exchange of ideas. Only ideas that are close to the truth withstand criticism and scrutiny. Criticism is essential to getting closer to the truth. The exact opposite to how The Truth operates (funny that). So my dad takes criticism as personal attacks whereas I value reasonable criticism - it's how I sharper my own ideas.
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  NAVYTOWN

  Never get into a debate like this with a JW....they live in La-La Land. Why waste your time and energy trying to change his mind? Let him believe he isn't a 'creationist' if that makes him happy. Why let it bother you to this extent. Surely you have better things to spend time on. Let it go!
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  TheStumbler

  You are probably right. Like I said I thought it might be a good way to show him that the Watchtower is not always accurate. I didn't think he'd automatically defend the Watchtower over something so insignificant Then I got frustrated that he was dismissing everything I said. It's really like talking to a brick wall.
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  smiddy

  To use an old cliche , "you can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink " Your trying too hard.

  I was given "Crisis Of Conscience " to read while I was still in , it didnt get me out of the religion , it may have put a few more doubts in the back of my mind , however their were some things I just dismissed out of hand....I wasn`t ready for it.

  You may have planted a seed or two of doubt in his mind , and if so it will germinate in time , if not , he`s not ready to hear such things , and it wont do any good flogging it . ( the dead horse )

  smiddy
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  Vanderhoven7

  6. Humpty Dumpty

  Through the Looking Glass, by Lewis Carroll

  

  There's glory for you!' said Humpty

  'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.

  Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'

  'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.

  'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

  'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

  'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'
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  TheStumbler

  That's interesting. I am sometimes tempted to think there is sone combination of words, or some argument so water tight, that upon hearing it any Witness will say 'oh yeah, the Truth must be wrong about that'. I know it doesn't work like that but it is still tempting to think.

  I hope on some level I caused him to at least consider that the watchtoower might be wrong about something. JWs make a big thing about making mistakee in the past and not being infallible, right? They should at least be open to the Watchtowrt being wrong on some things. It seems they only accept changes that are directed internally.
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  TheStumbler

  That's interesting. I am sometimes tempted to think there is sone combination of words, or some argument so water tight, that upon hearing it any Witness will say 'oh yeah, the Truth must be wrong about that'. I know it doesn't work like that but it is still tempting to think.

  I hope on some level I caused him to at least consider that the watchtoower might be wrong about something. JWs make a big thing about making mistakee in the past and not being infallible, right? They should at least be open to the Watchtowrt being wrong on some things. It seems they only accept changes that are directed internally.
• 

  TheStumbler

  That's interesting. I am sometimes tempted to think there is sone combination of words, or some argument so water tight, that upon hearing it any Witness will say 'oh yeah, the Truth must be wrong about that'. I know it doesn't work like that but it is still tempting to think.

  I hope on some level I caused him to at least consider that the watchtoower might be wrong about something. JWs make a big thing about making mistakee in the past and not being infallible, right? They should at least be open to the Watchtowrt being wrong on some things. It seems they only accept changes that are directed internally.
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  bemused

  As far as I can make out, JWs are creationists in any normal sense of the word. However for your Dad, the word creationist means a 6-day creationist, which JWs are not, therefore, in his eyes, JWs are not creationists. I'd give up on this one if I were you.
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  Listener

  You weren't rude to him but he says you were so you should probably write to him and say you are sorry if you offended him and you didn't mean to.

  Explain to him the main point you were expressing to him. Take the opportunity to give him another example and one that is even more water tight such as the definition of 'generation'. Quote the history of JW teachings on this definition and all the changes. Then ask him questions, such as - Could you explain from the bible exactly how they came up with this latest definition? Why have they constantly changed the definition? What was it that caused them to change the definition each time? The bible itself establishes what a generation is, why have they chosen their own definition? Is it reasonable to expect earnest bible students to accept this new definition that is well outside any logical understanding of the term?