by Doug Mason 29 Replies latest watchtower bible
designs - Do you think Paul, with his colossal ego, felt he was writing inspired words at the time.
I don't think so, IMHO. Of the 7 letters which can be confidently attributed to Paul, I find it difficult to believe that he felt that way. The history behind the transmission of the bible helps eliminate the idea. I really think he was just writing letters of encouragement and instruction as a fellow member of the faith.
The writer of Timothy, be it Paul, or as is thought more likely, a School of Paul writer, makes no claim to be inspired himself, so the words about inspiration by god have no power even if we confine them as we should do to referring to the O.T and other early Hebrew writings. (Like the ones referenced in Jude, but not in our Canon).
If you can prove that the guy using a Nom-de-plume to write 2 Timothy was himself inspired the claim may have some value, as it is, it is of no more worth than if I claim the all Terry's posts on here are "inspired of god". (They are damn good so they may be ??)
Using the Bible to bolster its own credibility is rather silly.
Thanks, Emery! Good catch.
Eden
The problem with the early church was CONTENT. What shall we talk about in our meetings? Sure, eye-witnesses had much to say about their experience with Jesus, but what about where no eye-witnesses were available to the local community? Travelling ministers. But what to do when those weren't present? That's when the material from the apostolic letters began to circulate among the congregations and in time it became so revered that it was elevated to "holy scripture" status.
Eden
The concept of inspiration was well-known amongst ancient Hebrews and Greeks. The word theopneustos might be new, but the concept has been around for aeons, especially in Greek culture. No doubt this is where Paul, trained as a Pharisee, picked it up. He was well-read, quoting some of their poems. Consequently he would amalgamate Jewish thought with that of the Greeks. The principle of inspiration (= originating from God) is found in Jewish writings, Biblical as well as Extra-Biblical.
The commandments would be dictated by God ( Ex. 34:27 ) or inscribed by Him on the tablets (24:12; 31:18; 32:16). Jubilees refers to heavenly tablets on which not only the Law (4:5, 32) but the history, too, is already inscribed (23:32; 31:32; 32:28). The work of God in the prophets is specifically called inspiration ( Nu. 24:2–4 ; Hos. 9:7 ): “This doctrine of inspiration guarantees the authority of the Prophets and Writings in the older Synagogue, though this authority is less than that of the Law, which is given by God. While the Law was pre-existent, was taught to Moses by God, and was literally dictated or even written down by God Himself, the Prophets and Writings were inspired by God… ”
Hellenistic Judaism understood the authority of Scripture primarily in the category of inspiration. That similar ideas made their way into Palestinian Judaism, too, may be seen from 4 Esr. 14:22, where the author asks God for the gift of the Holy Spirit that he may be able to write down again just as it was everything that was in the destroyed Law and everything that took place from the beginning of the world (see TDNT, volume VI, p. 455).
Whatever "pure" theology Judaism possessed received two smashing blows historically.
1. Babylonian captivity
2. Alexander the Great's generals Hellenizing (paganizing effects)
There was no proto-Bible until post-exile efforts were made to dovetail the split in Judaism. This is why competing versions existed and were
allowed to be inserted as text. (Two versions of Noah's story, for example. 2 of each animal or 7 ?)
The LXX became necessary because Hebrew was abandoned in favor of Greek and those few who COULD READ needed an update.
Nothing is more revealing of the LXX than the obviously fabricated myth about its origins. If you need to make up a big, fat whopper to sell the idea your version is divinely approved--what does that say about your level of (a) confidence (b) integrity ?
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***How the Septuagint was created:
King Ptolemy once gathered 72 Elders. He placed them in 72 chambers, each of them in a separate one, without revealing to them why they were summoned. He entered each one's room and said: "Write for me the Torah of Moshe , your teacher". God put it in the heart of each one to translate identically as all the others did.
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Emery,
Please make your own study of 2 Timothy and the associated aspects. I want my ideas to stimulate personal research. Make use of bits of my findings but do not rely only on what I have come to understand. Use it as a starter. The joy is in the search, the excitement is in the discovery. So you must make it your own.
This Study, as I wrote, is a direct response the those two online articles from the "Insight" book. I traverse similar territory in another Study:
http://www.jwstudies.com/Why_Does_WTS_Accept_Christendoms_Scriptures.pdf
but more extensively and with different reference sources. Read the books that I cite - and others ("St Paul versus St Peter" by Michael Goulder is essential reading).
I know for certain that no two people will take to same outcomes from my writings, that no one will see it as I have done. Unlike the WTS, which demands lock-step uniformity, my pleasure comes in seeing the diversity. I am enjoying the contributions to this Thread.
There are so many other features that this subject touches on. With the contents of the Christian Church's OT and NT, it is so important to try to get to grips with the dynamics of those first few hundred years. The Pauline sect ultimately dominated because of a vision - a dream - by a Roman Emperor. The Romans could not tolerate dissension, so Emperors such as Constantine and Theodosius became intimately involved, making decrees in order to ensure harmony.
Consider the person Paul: his are the earliest writings and he says he did not get his ideas from any man - and was totally opposed to Jerusalem - but they came to him in dreams/visions. So where did he get the words supposedly spoken at the "Last Supper"? Further, why did the later people who wrote the Gospel follow Paul's account? Was Paul a mystic steeped in Greek thinking? How did he reinvent the meanings in the Hebrew Scriptures? What would Christianity be like if we only had the Gospel stories of Jesus?
Thank you for your reference from Barnes.
Soldier on.
Doug
Having read your Paper in its entirety, I must thank you again Doug, your work certainly does spur me on to further research !
I did pick up on one Typo, a very amusing one actually, on page 14 you refer to the "Shepherd of Hernias" ! Quite how that venerable gentleman carried out his work is beyond me !
Did some sort of spell-check correct Hermas to Hernias, or was it a freudian slip ?
Thanks again, if I had come across work such as yours 20 or 30 years ago, I am sure I would have been freed from the clutches of the WT/JW religion that much sooner.
Doug Mason
Please make your own study of 2 Timothy and the associated aspects. I want my ideas to stimulate personal research. Make use of bits of my findings but do not rely only on what I have come to understand. Use it as a starter. The joy is in the search, the excitement is in the discovery. So you must make it your own.
Definitely, thanks Doug!
Phizzy,
I like it! Thanks for your sharp eyes. I can see how that happened (two hernias). I blame the OCR conversion of the PDF scan, but in reality I simply missed it.
I have fixed it, so no one need have two hernias in their copy.
Doug
