My three days of hell summary - Part I

by cookiemaster 20 Replies latest jw experiences

  • steve2

    I'm an open-minded sort of guy - I'm interested in the endlessly different shades of religious stupidity that people submit themselves to. The poor suckers: They had the sense to breakaway from the organization, but the unfortunate stupidity to remain within the sorry orbit of the organization. Some people need chains.

  • Witness My Fury
  • OneEyedJoe

    I think I heard somewhere that the main cause of the schism was the change of the meaning of "superior authorities." Apparently a lot of folks living under communist regimes weren't too happy about being told that they should submit to the government, and instead assumed that brooklyn had been taken over by communist appostates.

  • sir82

    These schisms is central / eastern Europe would make for a fascinating historical essay or even book.

    Well, as least for history nerds like me.

  • truthwillsetyoufree

    I heard the same as oneeyedjoe. I think I read it through Raymond Franz. Obeying the superior authorities was Jehovah and Jesus over secular authorities. Communism happened and communication was almost nonexistent. When communism collapsed and contact was reestablished they found out that the superior authorities had changed to mean secular authorities. It might not seem very important but considering these witnesses had suffered so much for their faith by obeying Jehovah and Jesus as the superior authorities and then they find out that its been change to mean to obey secular authorities is a bit of a slap in the face! They also thought the secular authorities were trying to deceive them by using this change of teaching to get the faithful jws to obey them hence putting them in line with what they had been resisting.

  • quellycatface

    That's a really interesting story. I never knew about this group. Thank you for sharing.

  • suédoise

    I dont think I've ever heard of that group, interesting. Anyway, I am gonna get my three days of hell soon. Its always in the hottest period in Sweden, so I'll sit and sweat in clothes not made for that.

  • kaik

    The schism is well known and documented and been around for about 45-50 years. The hardliners were minority and abandoned by Brooklyn, because they put higher emphasis on Bible than on WT publication. Knorr sided with the moderate section that saw themselves as a good citizen in communist block, but not interfering in the political system. The moderates had broader base and respected authorities without causing much troubles. I do not remember than anyone had significant problem with the communist goverment when I lived there. My aunt was JW from late 1950's or so, and my mom joined them before 1975. We never had any problem. The hardliners were refusing whatsoever respect to the authorities and played on martyrdom issue. These people oftem emphasised how much they suffered for their faith. I heard the comparision that they were like medieval beggers in front of church displaying their leprosy.

    Second issue was also literature. Under communism, there was just not enough publication. While there supposed to be only one channel, many JWs had obtained publications from abroad, translated them, copied them and distributed. Generally there were several ways mostly from Vienna, but also via Poland, Belgrade, and Budapest. When the light started to change, the hardliners thought that it was plot of the communist government damaging the publication and faith, causing them to turn into very old literature. After years the split was too big as there were too many differences. Each group usurped their own position and mutually excommunicated each other. Brooklyn was often not sure what was happening due political isolation, but Knorr sided with the moderates.

    I run into the hardliners several times in 1980's, and they called themselves sometimes unofficially Children of Jehovah or Witnesses for Jehovah. They conserved WT teaching of the interwar period. Elders did not like them and considered them as very dangerous apostate. After 1989, there was attempt to unify these two groups and reconcile the differences, but many did not. I heard that the leadership of the hardliners decided on their own regardless what their members wanted as they were persuaded by Brooklyn. Many followed them into the mother organization, but also smaller part refused to acknowledge the shift and stayed behind.

  • Pistoff

    This group seems like a great study group for a paper on how religious ideas develop and morph over time.

  • Phizzy

    Another sort of Schism that I have never got the truth about happened at the close of WW2 in Germany.

    It seems that a good number who risked their lives in the Concentration Camps found upon attaining freedom that the WT, especially Rutherford, had let them down, and that in the time they were prepared to die for their beliefs, the beliefs had been changed.

    A good number left the WT, we only hear about them as ones who succombed to "materialism" according the the Tower of Lies, the truth of the matter is far less favourable to the WT.

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