Do you "believe" differently from what you "know"?

by compound complex 23 Replies latest jw friends

  • zophar

    I used to think I had all the answers as a JW. I even sort of bragged about it in the field service. You know, JW's can answer all your questions! Now I realize I don't even have all the questions, much less the answers!

    I personally still feel a need or desire to worship God. I have not found a RIGHT way to do that. I think that comes from thinking for so long that there IS a RIGHT and a WRONG way of worship. I find I have much in common with Agnostics, Athiests and "Religious" people these days.

    I've mentioned before that I put a lot of stock in 1 Corinthians 13:12 "For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror but then it will be face to face. At present I know partially, but then I shall know accurately even as I am accurately known.

    By the way, I think that same Scripture applies to the GB. They "know partially" as well.

  • tornapart

    Coco, I feel similar to you. Since finding out TTATT my faith has been rocked and shaken. In the organisation, definitely. In God, sometimes. Especially when reading all the 'atheist' related threads on here. They have certainly given me much food for thought. Yet still, I have a yearning inside me for the spiritual. Is God a part of it? Or is spirituality separate from God but still something as humans we need. Yes, I still believe in God but I think there is something more or something different from the God religion has taught us.

    I enjoy reading books by the author Philip Yancey who has asked many many questions over his life. He bacame agnostic during his adolesence after leaving a fundamentalist religion. The God he now believes in is NOT the God he was shown as a youngster. I find his questioning and the answers he discovers are on a par with my own discovery.

    The questions though continue. Sometimes I put all my thoughts of God and all other questions to one side and just get on and enjoy my life. But those questions still niggle away in the background. I find I can't forget about God, he's there all the time for me, whether I want him or not. He's a part of my life and even if non believers think I'm just another deluded christian, I'm actually happy that he is.

    But he is NOT the God of the WT!!

  • FadeToBlack

    @Designs: I think I understand your point, but are you talking about the earth's future or the future of the human race? I think the earth (as in planet) will be ok with or without us. Actually, I think it may do better without us. Unfortunatley, as a member of the geezer class (thanks Focus), I won't be around long enough to find out. I have very little faith in humans every deciding to do the right thing until it is too late.

  • Focus

    Noted, FadeToBlack, lol.

    OP Question: Do you "believe" differently from what you "know"?

    Focus Answer: For reasons I can't go into, I'm linked to Samuel Langhorne Clemens , of whom you probably know (by his pen name, at least).

    He and I usually think identically too.

    He wrote:




    ("Succinct" Class)

  • Scully

    Hello CoCo

    I recently read a book called "A Manual for Creating Atheists" by Peter Boghossian.

    He describes faith-based beliefs as "pretending to know things you don't know" especially when those faith-based beliefs lack evidence to support them.

    If certain beliefs pass muster - if they can be empirically proven - then they are worthy of our belief. If they can't be proven, then they belong "at the kiddy table" (along with the individuals who insist on claiming such as truth when they are really pretending to know things they don't know).

  • Focus

    Yes, Scully.

    Furthermore, the more deep-rooted is the suspicion that the faith may be at least a bit "off", the more strenuous will be the preaching. The preacher is largely preaching to himself and trying to shut out those (in the case of WTS teaching, "Satan-inspired") doubts.



    ("Shrink" Class)

  • AnneB

    What you know depends on how you were socialized.

    What you believe comes from your gut.

    Just choose which one is more real.


  • Magnum

    I agree with and can relate to all the posts. I especially agree with and feel like Dis-Member, Iown Mylife, wearewatchingyouman, zophar, & tornapart.

    I don't know what to believe anymore. I have looked to the sky and begged for answers late at night all alone under the stars. I have tried addressing a potential deity in different ways; I have tried "Jehovah", "Jesus", and general terms like "Creator", "Sovereign", "Father", "any superhuman being who can hear me", etc. So far, all I have received is complete silence. But I still hold to the hope that there is a superhuman being who wants and is able to help.

    The more I learn about the Bible (the history of it, how the books were chosen, etc.), the more I fear that it's not what it claims to be. I hope it is, but I just don't know. I want it to be true. I want the suffering, misery, injustice, etc. to stop. Being an animal lover, I am horrified by the suffering of animals in the wild and in captivity, and one of the reasons I always wanted the new world to come is that I thought it would stop the suffering of animals.

    My wife and I both fear now that we're all just on our own. I wish, if there were a God, that he would make the search for him easier.

    Hey zophar, a few years ago, the smartest and most studious and knowledgeable elder in my circuit (or probably that I've ever known) mentioned that verse (1 Co 13:12 - "For at present we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror"). He was frustrated and was making the point that we as JWs (including the GB) have a long way to go - we just see a hazy outline right now. He's no longer an elder and I know he has issues with the org. He's a very kind, humble man.

    If any of you come across anything that would help me in my searches and seeekings - books, miscellaneous points, personal thoughts, etc. - please share on this forum or by PM.

  • Quarterback

    Yes, sometimes when I'm staring at that hamburger, and fries, I don't beleive that it has all of those calories that is on the fact sheets. But, I've been proven wrong many times.

  • compound complex
    compound complex

    I appreciate all your replies, dear friends.

    Thank you so much for help that assists me with my own struggles. The public talk today was the best I've heard in years: excellent illustrations, logical, coherent development, from-the-heart delivery, sufficient but not overuse of scripture, etc. Yet, . . .

    Yes, sometimes when I'm staring at that hamburger, and fries, I don't beleive that it has all of those calories that is on the fact sheets. But, I've been proven wrong many times.

    Thanks, Quarterpounder!


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