Skeptics Bible for JW`s, many great questions!

by Beans 18 Replies latest watchtower bible

maynard

Thanks Quotes for that perspective on what a skeptic is. My take on “skeptic” had to do with the first post on this thread listing a web site. The approach of that site is anything but a logical approach. Your definition seems honorable.
But is it? My experience with skeptics, cynics, and atheist is that there thinking is flawed from the very beginning in that they will not acknowledge that there is even a possibility for divine guidance, miracles or revelation. Seeker4 seems to be in this boat; as quoted;
Oh yes. When things just don't make sense you resort to the old "shazamm" argument. That is: "God is all powerful and he did it by a miracle."
Bullshit
This is not an honest approach to truth.
Your quote said “creationism has been tested an failed. If creationism is being tested with the assumption there is no divine guidance, well of course it will fail. But if there is divine guidance ( which I believe there is) and your test does not take it into account then your test is faulty, not creationism.
There is only two options, creation or evolution. There is no evidence for evolution (only assumptions) but plenty for creation. Anyways this is another subject we can get in to more depth later.
Concerning Genocide; I will need a little more time to do this subject justice and will post a new thread dealing with your references.
Detective; yes I am aware the bible is an anthology. This is one of the reasons we know the bible to be divine in origin. Just think about it. The bible is a book written by over 40 people over a period of 4000 years on three different continents. But yet the theme all the way through is consistent, Gods plan of redemption for sinful man. There is no way mere man could have pulled it off, it has to de divine in origin. Yes there is different perspectives, but the message is all the same.
Seeker4; But is does make since. I believe that God created the earth in 6 literal days (whole other subject that I would be glad to talk about later), I believe God is all powerful, and in that context he can certainly become a man or guide animals to a boat. To not allow for even the possibility of a divine creator shows that your thinking is faulty. TO know that there is no divine creator you would have to know all that there is to know. But since you and all of mankind posses very little of all the knowledge that is available in the universe, it is possible that there is an all powerful God. If your thinking and reasoning is to be fair and honest you have to take this into account. Just because you have not met Him and know Him personally does not mean He does not exists.
May God bless you with wisdom to find Him.
Maynard
maynard

In reply to Quotes
If only Noah and his family survived the "global" flood described in the bible, how did the "Nephilim" survive?

Gen 6:4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.
Num 13:33 We saw the Nephilim there (the descendants of Anak come from the Nephilim). We seemed like grasshoppers in our own eyes, and we looked the same to them."
The word Nephilim does not refer to a race of people, but to the size of people. Nephilim means “giant”. All the Nephilim were wiped out in the flood along with everyone else that was not on the Ark. However Noah and his family carried the genetics required to produce giants.
Another factor may be the relevance to size. For example a NBA basketball player would be perceived to be a giant to most Chinese people. The Israeli’s were a shorter people in comparison to these giants.
Blessings
Maynard
Faraon

Beans,
Before I bought the books, I dowloaded the books "Is It God's Word" and "Forgery In Christianity" by Joseph Wheless. from http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/index.shtml
I actually changed it to Microsoft Word and reformatted it because it is in unformatted text. I did not know that Amazon.com has them for sale for about $45.00 for the set, plus S&H. It would have saved me about a week's work.
Reading "Is It God's Word?" freed me from the chains of Christianity. I came to the realization that Jehovah is a mythical god of war for the Jews, and though I think that there MAY be a god, I know for a fact that Yaweh, the god of Islam, Christianity, and Judaism is as false a god as Jupiter, Thor, Huitzilopochtli, and other mythical gods.
By the way, skeptics sells a CD ROM, which I plan to purchase. They also have a section for JWs.
JRP
Distrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful.
Nietzsche
FRUSR8TD

maynard wrote;
When you approach a subject (in this case, the bible) with skepticism you will more then likely come away from that subject with a skeptical outlook or opinion. That being the case you would have never given the subject a fair chance.
Do you apply this to "apostate" material?
In_between_days

Hi guys,
Excuse me for taking a different stand here, but what is the deal with everyone attacking Maynard and putting him down?
I know I am new to the board, but let me give you my opinion, so you can see how it looks with fresh eyes.
Maynard has started with thread with his opinion, which was done in a none confrontational and adult manner. Posters then reply by shooting down his views with calling him delusional and saying his viewpoint is a heap of crap.
I was talking to someone in chat last night who was a newbie and said that there was so much anger and bitterness on this board, that the apostates are playing right into the pigeonhole that JW's have created for them.
There is a much better way to argue someones point people, it's called constructiveness. I understand if you would be like this over issues as sensitive as child molestation, it is easy to become enraged on issues such as this. But this issue? Can't you respond in a manner that will not offend the poster personaly?
When I first came to this board, it helped me alot in breaking the chains of JW slavery, but now I am starting to wonder whether I should visit at all, anyone with any contradictory stands, even if they are presented in an adult manner are instantly mocked in a childish attack on their personality.
Sounds like some other people I know
Thank You
Quotes

The word Nephilim does not refer to a race of people, but to the size of people. Nephilim means “giant”. All the Nephilim were wiped out in the flood along with everyone else that was not on the Ark. However Noah and his family carried the genetics required to produce giants.
That sounds pretty convenient.... it also stretches the bounds of credultiy for this arguement.
The scripture doesn't say "giant" but rather says "Nephilim". Yes, the Nephilim were giants, but note carefully: they were a specific race of giants, to wit: (alleged) offspring from fallen angel fathers and human mothers. By attempting to remove the very specific wording in the scriptures, you are making a change simply which is simply not present in the very spefic wording of the scriptures.
For Noah to have carried the the specific Nephilim genetic code would mean that his lineage was from Nephilim. -- Re read the Genesis account of the Nephilim, you will find their "evilness" incompatible with Noah's "holiness".
Furthermore, as I remember being taught, after the flood Jah made it immpossible for fallen angels to take on material form (therefore they could not copulate with humans). Which means no new Nephilim could have been created.
===========================
For interesting Watchtower Society literature quotes, complete with references but without any editorial, check out: http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com
Quotes

One more thing, have fun trying to rationalize the "Holy Genocides" of the Old Testament. The only arguement I hae heard is simply "God is holy and all powerful, and we must respect his decision and follow his commands."
I don't accept that arguement in defense of any Genocide... even though they all usually claim a similar "divine right" excuse.
In_between_days, hope I don't sound like I'm picking on Maynard, I feel I'm just stating my 2 cents in response to maynard's post. That is what this board is all about: intelligent discussion. We sometimes agree to disagree.
===========================
For interesting Watchtower Society literature quotes, complete with references but without any editorial, check out: http://Quotes.JehovahsWitnesses.com
Beans

I think we have a winner!
maynard

Quotes; I already posted my answer about Genocide on the new thread, see it at
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=28441&site=3
but note carefully: they were a specific race of giants
My mistake, you are right the Nephilim were a specific race of people. However the word Nephilim still means giant. ( From Strong’s Concordance; bully or tyrant:--giant. #H5303/H5307.)
More then likely they were given or took the name Nephilim because they were big people in relation to all the other peoples around them.
We know this first race/people were wiped out in the flood; Gen 7:21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished--birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind.
We also know from Num 13 that after the flood there were another race/people called Nephilim. The only explanation is that the Nephilim developed from Noah’s line, that Noah had the genetics within him to product a large people.
For Noah to have carried the the specific Nephilim genetic code would mean that his lineage was from Nephilim. -- Re read the Genesis account of the Nephilim, you will find their "evilness" incompatible with Noah's "holiness".
Do you really believe that a person’s genetic make up determines weather they will be evil or good? I don’t and I don’t find any scripture that would support that teaching. Genetics don’t make a person evil or holy; the way a person conducts there life makes them evil or holy.
I think another problem with this equation is that you have the mistaken belief that fallen angels took on human form and fathered children. This is not taught in the bible that I know of. If it is please give me the scripture references so I can learn. However from Genesis 6:2 there is no mention of fallen angles. More then likely the “sons of God” refer to the decedents of Seth, Adam’s obedient son, while “daughters of man” refer to the decedents of Cain, Adam’s murderous son.
Finally Quotes, I want to thank you for your attitude. While you and I don’t agree, you have been more then gracious and considerate.
Blessings to you
Maynard.

Skeptics Bible for JW`s, many great questions!

Share this