What happened in Christianity ? O.T prophets were male & female ,God was not gender specific,

by smiddy 11 Replies latest jw friends

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  smiddy

  And the fact that male and female could be of the annointed class . Or could they .? . According to scripture they could. Sure in JW land anybody could partake of the emblems and wine , male and female denoting they could be rulers with Christ in his heavenly Kingdom , however did many of these partakers actually have any say with the governing body ? in fact did any of them have any say in their own kingdom halls ? NO ? Why not.?

  Is it all because of one persons ? supposed writings ? to then negate a multitude of scriptures that suggest the opposite ?

  The bible gave prominence to women and their contribution to religion. OT . The WT goes against scripture and demotes women to second class citizens, even though the bible clearly states women can be ruling with Christ in the heavens in Jesus christs thousand year reign.

  But of course they have no say at all while down here on earth , not at all , no way.Does this in anyway make sense ?

  smiddy
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  sarahsmile

  No! The Governing Body should have women! If women can partake and be part of 144,000 class then they should be part of a Governing Body.

  I knew women who partook. They wrote letters to bethel. One was accused of going before the light. They really thought they were getting divine light from Jehovah. Prayed about it all the time.

  Governing Body does not make any sense.

  Women should be pastors, elders, and overseers! And what ever! No one is living in bibical days!
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  AnnOMaly

  Acts 21:8, 9 - "The next day we left and came to Caes·a·re′a, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelizer, who was one of the seven men, and we stayed with him. This man had four unmarried daughters who prophesied."

  Romans 16:1, 2 - "I am introducing to you Phoe′be, our sister, who is a minister [Gk. diakonos*] of the congregation that is in Cen′chre·ae,  so that you may welcome her in the Lord in a way worthy of the holy ones and give her whatever help she may need, for she herself also proved to be a defender of many, including me."

  * The same word is used of 'deacons' at Philemon 1:1; 1 Tim. 3:8, 12

  Romans 16:7 - "Greet An·dron′i·cus and Ju′ni·as [Gk. Junia - a woman's name], my relatives and fellow prisoners, who are men well-known to the apostles [lit. 'notable (ones) in the apostles'- see KIT] and who have been in union with Christ longer than I have."

  This Scripture is more ambiguous regarding Junia's status, but it's interesting that the RNWT still interprets the name as belonging to a male.
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  Fernando

  Heaven forbid that women defile themselves with religion as part of the apostate ruling religious clergy class and hierarchy.

  We men should hang our heads in shame for our divisive legacy of war, religion and politics.

  Women's compassionate and community oriented proclivities make them much better promoters of liberating and unifying faith, spirituality, the gospel, peace, and genuine prophesy instead.
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  Vidiot

  Fernando - "Women's compassionate and community oriented proclivities make them much better promoters of liberating and unifying faith, spirituality, the gospel, peace, and genuine prophesy instead."

  Yup.

  But then, we might not get new Terminator movies.
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  SAHS

  The WTS would say that it’s all a matter of the “headship principle.” But, of course, the way they interpret that is most self-serving to raising the level of authority of the GB.

  The WTS certainly remains out of step with enlightened culture. In contrast, throughout history there have been powerful and respectable female leaders of entire countries, and we also see a steadily-growing number of women in various levels of service within the mainstream churches, including those who have been ordained and hold positions of leadership.

  The thing that really gets me perplexed and angry is that a woman can work as a president or CEO of a large corporation or even as the prime minister of a country, but when she gets home and then goes to a meeting at the Kingdom Hall, she is forbidden to do the most basic functions such as work behind the literature counter, operate the sound system, or even handle the microphones! I could never understand that. It must be very insulting and undignifying for women to have such low regard for their basic humanity. Really all women can do in the JW congregation is clean the damn toilets and hand out literature door-to-door. She even has to wear a head covering to study with her own baptized son! How many religions today take misogyny that far! I think that even orthodox jews and Muslims have better regard for women now (at least in western civilization).

  If the JWs were any more socially oppressive to women, they would probably require sisters in the Theocratic Ministry School to wear burkas!
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  myelaine

  Song of Solomon 6:10-13

  Daniel 12:1-3

  love michelle
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  villagegirl

  The origin of women as subject to men is in Genesis.

  There was no mention of man ruling women till after

  they were thrown out of the Garden of Eden and her subjection

  was part of a curse, " from now on your husband will rule over you"

  and Adam was cursed to work hard to survive and the ground was

  cursed. The whole point of Jesus Christ was that " the curse was

  nailed to the cross" All of the curse. Jesus said " you are neither male

  nor female but you are all one in the Christ " It is only the male dominated

  power structures, and the Catholic Church ( The Church who chose

  which books would be in the New Testament )

  Subjection of women has demonstrated itself to do harm to civilization.

  Look at the nations ruled by Islam. And the cultures like the Chinese, that

  broke little girls feet at 3 and four years old, causing them horrible pain,

  and bound those little feet. And this was done in China for one thousand years,

  during which time no one stood up and said " this isn't a good idea" it was

  the Western Missionaries who stopped it ( and say what you will, I know they

  did harm to many cultures, but some also did good ) The WT did not restore

  "true worship" All the WT did was set up a power structure under false doctrines

  about a "governing body" not in the Bible, and a "Faithful discreet slave" which

  became a Golden Calf these Elders worship at.
• 

  MadGiant

  "The bible gave prominence to women and their contribution to religion. OT . The WT goes against scripture and demotes women to second class citizens, even though the bible clearly states women can be ruling with Christ in the heavens in Jesus christs thousand year reign.

  But of course they have no say at all while down here on earth , not at all , no way.Does this in anyway make sense ?" - smiddy

  Are you sure that it's only the WT, and not the bible or the NT, that demoted women to second class citizens?

  1. The "natural use" of a woman is to serve the physical needs of men (Romans 1:27).
  2. "The head of the woman is the man" (1 Corinthians 11:3). 3. "For the husband is the head of the wife" (Ephesians 5:22-24; see also Colossians 3:18; 1 Peter 3:1).
  4. Old women must be "obedient to their husbands" (Titus 2:3, 5).
  5. Women are to be silent in church (1 Corinthians 14:34-35). 6. Women must "learn in silence with all subjection" (1 Timothy 2:9).
  7. Women are subordinate to men because of the sin of Eve (1 Timothy 2:14-15).
  8. Women must dress modestly (1 Timothy 2:9).

  Then you have (Revelation 14:3-4).

  I don't know, I think that the whole book was written by male chauvinist pigs.

  Praying that all will recognize that liberal notions of equality are antithetical to the Bible.

  Take care,

  Ismael
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  HowTheBibleWasCreated

  This is a very complicated question.

  Israel and Judah and most other Near Eastern Countries were male dominated. (Egypt was too until Hellinistic times)

  In Israel we have what might be the earliest text of the bible spoken by a woman. (Judges 5) Since Deborah (assuming we can take her song as having some accuracy) was a seer giving oracles under a tree this was hardly a dominating role.

  Hosea's story is complicated but it is likely he married a bad wife.

  Later however Isaiah mentions his wife as being a prophetess. This is VERY complicated. Isaiah chapter 5 actually curses a women ruling oer people. However preaching a message from Yahweh or another god was not objectionable to him. Mind you she might have been a prophetess since she was his wife. Isaiah enjoyed roayl favor having access to the Judean court of Hezekiah freely.

  Later is Huldah and here is where history gets bad. Josiah we are told goes for an oracle from her and she seems to be training others as Yahweh prophets. I find this unhistorical. The message she gives assumes an exile thus this is written into 2 Kings.

  Duing the Exile Ezekiel (assuming we take these oracles to be actually but the historical Ezekiel) alludes to possible murder of his wife in the name of Yahweh and goes through oracles of disgusting (chapter 16) and pornographic (chapter 23) views of women.

  Later in Post-Exilic times women seem to become absent. Zecariah however has a very demeaning vision of a woman in his visions.

  We find many women in Persian and Hellenistic times

  1. Sofia-Wisdom (Sort off)

  2. Sussana and the Elders story

  3. Judith

  However in christian times things changed.

  'Paul' (possibly not a historical person) while acceping women as apostles makes sure the know who is in charge. (Because of the angels lol)

  Later christians demean women's beauty. See 1 Peter.

  However the gospels are actually mosly neutral to women

  I therefore draw conclusions:

  In Israelite/Jewish society:

  Men were on top but women could teach.

  Women could be excellent examples.

  In Second century Christianity:

  Women were below men@!