BREAKING NEWS ! Finland attacks judicial committees

by raymond frantz 51 Replies latest jw experiences

  • besty

    I don't think society in general has figured out where to draw the line for freedom of religion

    IMHO its a form of child abuse to raise kids in high control groups like JW's etc - but what can be done without impinging on the more benign religions?

    Step 1 is the stringent application of a strong public benefit test with charitable status set with a higher barrier

    Government moves slowly but surely - 30 years ago JW kids in the UK were dieing over the blood issue - that simply doesnt happen anymore - so i figure maybe we are due for another step change - perhaps in how society perceives religious shunning

    I am shunned because I am black gay ex-JW - its not OK, but thats where we are right now.

  • Vidiot

    MeanMrMustard - "And what are the 'human rights' that are violated if a group doesn't want you as a member anymore?"

    The issue isn't that human rights are potentially violated when someone is expelled from a religious organization...'s that human rights are potentially violated when an individual voluntarily leaves a religious organization for personal reasons, and any family members or acquaintences who might otherwise be perfectly willing to remain in regular contact are, instead, compelled to shun him under direct or indirect threat of expulsion themselves.

    In addition, this also has the potential effect of making the individual himself feel coerced to remain associated with an organization that he otherwise would not, and what's more, accept and promote an ideology that he can no longer in good faith honestly subscribe to...

    ...which is also, arguably, a potential violation of human rights.

  • Make Lemonade
    Make Lemonade

    Vidiot is correct to point out the "coercing" that occurs to those who no longer can support the "error" of the teachings of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses.

    One only has to read and or watch (you tube) to become familiar with this. Add the testimony in the Douglas Walsh trial about supporting error and you can see what Vidiot said is right on the money.

    Also, I can tell you personally, that at this moment I know several who are going to meetings only because they have been threatened with loosing their families. Only because they want to save their wife and children. To see people I care for go thru this is my greatest source of anxiety. I can only describe the feeling, as like having a dream where you watch someone drown and you can not do anything about it. Problem is the coercion is real and happening as we speak.

    If one wants to go further into research about coercion inside the "organization", read about Manuela Dormain's experience. She was the mother of an abused boy. For years her son had a behavior problem. Only by reading her son's letter to his girl friend did she find out he had a bad thing happen to him when he was young. Manuela was compelled to warn a father about the possibility that his son was also abused. The father turned out to be an elder who knew abuot Compos being an abuser. Not only was Manuela disapointed that this elder did not warn her, but the elder coerced her to not go forward with making known Compos abuse of her son.

    What did Manuela do? She and her family did not allow themselves to be coerced. Watchtower settled out of court with a gag order. How much? I do not know. It is not the money. It is that someone faced the threat and came out the better for it.

    Watchtower has first amendment rights. Watchtower has a substantial legal team. Watchtower has financial assets.

    What Watchtower also has is a record of wrongdoing that the public needs to know about. Education of the public is perhaps the only action that means anything.

    If and when something else comes up then: "here I am send me" LOL

  • Iown Mylife
    Iown Mylife

    Ryan O'Neal in the movie Paper Moon, was a great con man who tricked widows into buying fancy bibles.

    The WT is no better. The Worldwide Tricksters. Schemers, lying thieves of our time and lives. They can't any of those con men really believe that a god exists. If they did they couldn't treat people the way they do.


  • Xanthippe

    Don't mean to be pedantic but people and things from Finland are Finnish not Finish. It just gives a bad impression.

  • jgnat

    Didn't the old USSR allow dissidents to leave but they had to leave their families behind? That's surely breaking a human right; severing natural familial bonds.

  • Vidiot

    besty - "Government moves slowly but surely..."

    Sometimes it takes a while to dot all the i's and cross all the t's in a way that'll make it stick.

    Plus, when a particular issue doesn't affect the vast majority of people, they're a lot less inclined to give a shit.

  • tresdecu

    This is interesting...BUT, The JWs will just change the name in Finnish from Judicial Comittee to 'Loving Congregational Counsel Session' Nothing will change. I do applaud peoples efforts though to instigate change.'

  • frankiespeakin

    Well well the world is finally catching on to these religous fanatics called the Governing Body, they will hide behind the guise of a religion and can do no wrong according to their self invented appointment to being God's right hand men.

    They need to be brought to accounts over this especially since they delusionally feel they have the right to break up families over their coporation bull shit on Dismemberment.

  • MeanMrMustard

    Groups have a lot of latitude in their behavior. However, once you enjoy the tax benefits of a non-profit organizations there needs to be established a value to the community. The antisocial behavior of jws is the opposite of what should be considered community benefit.

    Is that written somewhere in the law (it could be in Finland, I don’t know) that if you accept tax exemptions, you automatically accept the government’s regulation over doctrines that it might find unacceptable?

    If it were written that way, do you think the WTB&TS would go along with it? There are easy ways to make up the cost of taxes (see below).

    So, they can do two things give up shunning and a few other antisocial behaviors (like letting their kids die) or give up their tax benefits.

    Let’s say this were enacted. Are you thinking about the unintended consequences? That is, you hope that the WTB&TS would think about losing their tax exempt status, and then change their doctrine to conform. However, what is more likely happen is that they would accept the taxes, and pass them down to their members. This occurs with pretty much all tax hikes on corporations - the corporation doesn’t pay, people pay. Either the customers or, in the case, the members. New donation arrangements would be “suggested”, or certain updates to halls would be placed on hold and the local congregation would have to come up with the funds, or any number of things. In the end, you are placing the tax on the members, and it wouldn’t change the shunning.


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