Cain and Abel: Literal or allegorical? Symbolic?

by Jon Preston 16 Replies latest jw friends

  • Jon Preston
    Jon Preston

    I would love to hear a believers point on this! From an interesting point of view:

    "Jehovah’s Witnesses, and some others, believe that humans did not eat meat until after the flood. So, for approximately 1,600 years from creation to the flood, humans were vegetarians. They did not begin eating meat until this privilege was granted to humans in Genesis 9:3. In fact, Jehovah’s Witnesses go one step further. They believe that even animals were vegetarians until after the flood. They believe that grass is the natural, god-intended food for lions. Fossils of carnivorous dinosaurs are rather troublesome to them, so they ignore them.

    This creates an interesting problem in the Cain and Abel story. As you recall, Abel was a shepherd. Now, don’t forget that there are only four people on the planet. Acquisition of food must have been their top priority.

    So, the question arises, if they didn’t eat meat, what was Abel doing with all those sheep? Either he was a huge slacker (imagine 25% of the planetary labour force piddling around with their pets when they should be working), or he had some other purpose for them. Don’t forget that there were no women, other than their mother. I will say no more.

    CAIN THE FARMER

    Again, remember that there were only four people on the earth (OK, it’s possible that maybe there were some other, unmentioned children at this time, but certainly not more than a handful, which doesn’t materially change our story).

    Now, we know that civilization goes through various phases of development. It begins with hunter/gatherer, then progresses to nomadic, agricultural, and finally, urban. Cain seems to have progressed straight to agricultural, which is more than a little strange. The Hebrew nation at the time of Abraham, 2,500 years later, was still in the nomadic phase. They must have moved backwards.

    To top it off, at the end of the story, Cain built a city. So, Civilization appears to have developed at lightening speed. "

    I found this quite eye-opening and damning to the real existence of the Caun and Abel story....whatcha think?

    I must give credit to Fred Titanich for this information . For more see "The Atheist Book of Bible Stories"

  • Shanagirl
    Shanagirl

    Here's an interesting slant on the Cain and Abel story

    CAIN, THE IMMORTAL

    Everybody knows what happened after the “fall” of man, according to Genesis. Adam and Eve were thrown out of paradise and had children. First Cain and then Abel. Everybody knows that “God did not accept the sacrifices which Cain offered him but did accept Abel's”. So Cain, consumed by jealousy, threw himself on his brother and killed him. Everybody knows this; we have always thought “how bad Cain was”, “he killed his brother, how terrible”. Cain was the bad one and Abel the good; this is the interpretation given to us in judaism, christianity and islam. Even Saint Augustine in his interpretation of the myth of Cain and Abel compares Cain with the Jews and Abel with Christ. He says that the Jews killed Christ in the same way that Cain killed Abel. Saint Augustine then, like everyone else, carried on the tradition that Abel was good and Cain was bad.

    It is very clear in the bible; Cain is punished by God, banished. This is seen as something logical and normal: Cain is bad and Abel is good. The Gnostic interpretation is completely different as we will now see.

    First of all, Gnosis maintains that Cain was not the son of Adam and that Eve conceived her first son Cain with the Serpent, Lucifer. The Serpent Lucifer impregnated Eve with his breath. In other words, Cain was not completely human, born from flesh. His Spiritual nature was great because his father was Lucifer, coming from the unknowable world of the Spirit.

    On the other hand, Abel was the son of Adam and Eve, in other words Abel was indeed born from flesh.

    We can now see the first difference between the two brothers: Cain is superior to Abel. Cain is the son of Eve and Lucifer, the initiatory Serpent of Eden. Cain is the son of the Spirit and of flesh. Abel, on the contrary, is born only from flesh. Therefore we can see first of all that Cain is not someone evil but that in fact he is superior, important, and much more so than Abel.

    Secondly, Cain as much as Abel made sacrifices to the creator god to please him, offering him things that he liked. Cain offered vegetables and Abel animals, lambs for example. According to the bible the creator god preferred the latter: the blood from the dead animals and the smell of burnt flesh of the corpse. The bible says that the creator was pleased by Abel's sacrifices but not by Cain's. It appeared that Cain had little desire to please the creator since he only offered him a few seeds and with little devotion, as if he wasn't entirely convinced of the usefulness of making sacrifices. Naturally then, Abel's sacrifices were accepted by the creator and Cain's weren't. Cain didn't like to offer sacrifices to the creator because of his roots, because he was the son of Lucifer and had the divine spark of the Angel of Light within him. That is why he did not make suitable sacrifices to the creator and why it disgusted him to do so since he did not belong to this created world. Abel, on the other hand, whose nature was not of the Spirit but of an animal, did make suitable sacrifices and these were the ones which most pleased the creator.

    An ancient legend relates what Abel said to his brother Cain on one particular occasion: “my sacrifice, my offering, was accepted by God because I love him, your offering was on the other hand rejected because you hate him”. Now it is quite clear, Cain hates the creator because he is born from the Spirit, his true nature is Spiritual! Put this way it is quite clear. All these legends and myths surrounding Genesis tell us many things. Through them we realise that much information has been distorted and hidden from us.

    There are other interesting things which Cain said to his brother. One small sentence sums up his position. These words are key: “There is no law, no judge” Palestinian Targum, Gen., 4:8). Cain is denying the authority of the creator god and the fact of paying homage to and obeying him.

    Later on we see that Cain murdered his brother Abel. This is something very profound as it signifies that the Spirit rejects, destroys and murders the soul. Abel, presented as pure love and devotion in the bible, represents the soul of man according to Gnostics. Cain, on the contrary, represents the Spirit, which explains his hostility and hatred. Hostility and hatred typical of the Spirit, since the Spirit really hates this impure world, full of unfair and absurd rules. This explains Cain's resistance to making sacrifices and his disobedience as regards the creator's commandments. Cain and Abel are as opposed and irreconcilable as are the Spirit and the soul.

    The soul is pure love, not True Love but that which we know as love, that which we believe is love, that which we have been told is love, which in actual fact is hatred. The Spirit is the opposite; It is perceived as pure hatred, hostility and revenge. Due to being shackled in this satanic creation the only thing the Spirit can feel is hostility and hatred, that which ordinary men know as hatred. The Spirit, which is Pure Love, can only feel aversion and disgust before this thing that is, in fact, pure garbage. That is why the Spirit wants to destroy this satanic creation, because for It, creation is a deformed monstrosity which should never have come into existence. This is what Cain's murder of Abel symbolises.

    Cain, through his actions, freed himself completely from the creator and from his own body and soul. Through these acts against the creator god and his half-brother Abel he freed himself once and for all from the inferior god and his impure and flawed creation. With these acts he transformed himself into an opponent, an eternal enemy of the demiurge and his work.

    This whole episode of Cain and Abel, such as it is in Genesis in the bible and in legends such as the jewish midrash amongst others, has been interpreted by Gnostics in a way that totally opposes the generally accepted version.

    After committing his Supreme Act, the bible says that Cain was cursed by god and banished from that place. “Cursed and banished”, the same destiny as the Serpent of paradise. It was logical that this should happen, as Cain had turned himself into an absolute opponent of the creator god, but as well as that, many more interesting things happened which we are going to be highlighting here:

    First of all, we saw that Cain was cursed and banished by the creator god. This, which could have appeared to be punishment, is just the opposite for a Gnostic. To be cursed and banished by the creator is an honour for a Gnostic. It is the natural reaction of the demiurge faced with someone who has defied him and slapped him in the face, faced with someone who has made himself equal or superior to him. Cain is in exile because he completely transformed himself, successfully exiled himself and now no longer belongs to this world, although he carries on living in it. The bible says that the creator banished him, but Cain is free, liberated in life and through his acts he cursed the creator and exiled himself from this abominable creation.

    Secondly, several jewish legends relate that the creator punished Cain forever with insomnia, condemning him never to sleep again, with eternal wakefulness. To a Gnostic, this is not punishment but a triumph. Being condemned to eternal wakefulness is an advantage, a virtue, an important achievement. Cain woke himself up disobeying the creator's commandments and “murdered” his soul.

    Thirdly, the bible says that the creator protected Cain, not allowing anyone to harm or kill him. This is another interesting fact. Gnostics say that a man who has transformed himself into pure Spirit, although he continues to inhabit his physical body, is immortal, untouchable. Absolutely no-one can harm or attack him now and he has no fear since he is beyond everything and will never die. He is in this world but outside of it as well. He is outside of matter and time and now does not form part of creation. He exiled himself from this world by his own will. The creator god can't harm him anymore, because Cain is now superior to him.

    Fourthly, the bible says that the creator put a mark on Cain, a sign, so that everyone would recognise him and would not hurt him. Some ancient jewish legends say that this sign was a horn on his forehead. A horn on the forehead signifies power, power that comes from the Spirit, power that distinguishes him from other men. This callous on his forehead signifies that the Spirit has freed Itself and has taken possession of the body, hardening it, Spiritualising it. No-one put a mark on Cain. Cain put it there himself. When this happens, it is noticed by other men and the whole of creation. Every Spirit freed from the prison of matter will have this mark for all eternity. Now the Spirit will never be what It was before being shackled to matter. That characteristic mark is the body transformed, as hard as a diamond. The Spirit has transmuted the body and is now immortal and eternal. This will be Its eternal reminder, the everlasting proof of Its path through hell and Its triumph over it.

    Shana

  • Jon Preston
  • darth frosty
  • kaik
    kaik

    Shana, very well said. I just been posting this on other posts. There are several midrash traditions where one claim that Cain was a product between Even and Serpent. Eve supposed to be the most beautiful woman in the humanity and Serpent was driven by lust to have an intercourse with her. When Eve had born Cain, she supposed to declare “I have gained a male child with the Lord" - that the lord was a Serpent. Cain did not have a human features according to Rabbinic interpretations. Cain was a farmer and he believed that he owned the land. He was hard working and sweat in the labor. Abel took control over the animals and Cain felt that he did not work as hard as he did and was puzzled why God did not accept his offering. Other stories relates the quarrell over the offering site [ Zion shall be plowed as a field Micah 3:12] which Cain demanded. Cain attacked Abel because his brother refused to cede the land to him,.

  • BackseatDevil
    BackseatDevil

    ALSO, it should be noted that nowhere else in the bible is vegetation used, accepted, or expected as a sacrifice. For that reason it is probably more metaphor regarding the conflict between hunters and (the new process of) agriculture.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    In the ancient stories of gods one god usually kills another god, in the main story its about chaos and the renewing of the season, I'm thinking this has something to do with this and the bible writers tried to make it fit into a story concerning their god.

  • snare&racket
    snare&racket

    The idea of humans not eating meat is highly inaccurate and had to be made by people long ago ignorant to reality. You can't just magic humans into meat eating, from our DNA up, everything would change drastically, we would literallly become a different species over night.

    Our teeth, our mouths, our stomach, our intestines, our liver, our pancreas, our saliva all have functions specific to eating meat alone. When you eat something you break it down over several stages to a tiny chemical molecule. Every stage of breaking down requires chemicals and proteins to make it happen, these chemicals and proteins all need making and distributing in the body. By adding meat to the diet we are changing the human from the ground up! A 'human' that did not consume meat would be very different, have longer intestines, different teeth, jaws and faces, would have a different pancreas and liver and a wildly different lifestyle. Animals that feed on vegetation spend their days grazing, some human ancestors spent up to 90% of their time eating as it was so energy inefficient to consume vegetation.

    Only when we evolved enzymes to break down meat and developed fire to aid that process could we have 'spare' time to develop cultures and societies, over hundreds of thousands of years.

    This is not guess work, this is all evidence based. As for modern day vegetarians, they have to supplement their diet with essential amino acids and take advantage of farmed and processed foods with high calories and sugar. Adam of the bible had wild greens and fruit trees....... even if they were easy to find his whole life would have been consumed by eating.

    We have plants with energy from the sun, tiny animals and insects eat the plants, then slightly larger animals eat the smaller animals and plants in greater quantity, then larger animals again eat the animals that eat the animals and the plants .......at every stage the energy being carried in an animal increases drastically, so that the energy and raw material available increases every level. The higher up the chain you eat, the mire energy you can consume in less time. The animal and plant kingdom work on this basis of energy transfer, the idea of animals not eating animals is ridiculous, the energy from the plants to the larger animals can only get there by consumption of other animals OR by spending all day eating vegetation non stop and by having long intestines, consantly metabolising what you consume. Such as with cows etc.

    When I learned all this, I gave myself a big facepalm. While we are at it, try finding a source that lions can or ever have lived off straw lol..... doesn't exist. The urban myth about the london zoo feeding the lions straw during the war as repeated in WT literature has no basis.

  • Jon Preston
    Jon Preston

    Well put snare...have you read that book i referenced? interesting, indeed.

  • Jon Preston
    Jon Preston

    I know when my dog eats grass he throws up...FACT

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