by John_Mann 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
We already are very familiar with the God delusion, but what to think about the property of being self aware is just another illusion?
Buddhism asserts that and many people does not know that the very materialism (physicalism) asserts that too.
How can an illusion be self aware to be an illusion in itself? What would change in your life if you accept this?
What you think about it?
Materialism (physicality) has sufficient external evidences to be accepted on face value. Our own motivations and perceptions however, are suspect at best. Here's where I tried to synthesize my latest thoughts on this but readers have warned me it's "deep".
I have reconciled our apparent lack of control by assigning my inarticulate id as friendly and helpful. My inarticulate side is as much me as my chatterbox rational side.
So my personal image of this mind relationship is the boy riding the elephant. The boy can pretend he is in charge, but the reality is much bigger. But that's all right; boy and rider are making their way through the jungle, enjoying the journey.
But if there's no boy riding the elephant?
My topic is about no self at all, we are in a sense just bio-robots that have a command to simulate a self that can experience some free will.
The self is an illusion in same way of Jehovah being the creator of the universe.
So what's the difference between this and predestination? If we're robots programmed with a command you're inferring a programmer. So, who/what's the programmer?
Well, we articulate. We think, write, speak. This comes from the rational side of our mind. That's our boy.
God is in the neurons don't cha know. Yes the self is a imaginary construct of the psyche a useful label or tool if you will, that is common among the human species which also creates the illusion of an inside and outside of the body, a disconnect purely imaginary but useful. Jung gave this illustration of the psyche according to his way of looking at it as a healer in psychiatry:
Self aware of the imaginary Self(or central organizing element of psyche)
What is reality?
We could all be in the Matrix!
Face value is a blighter. One man's meat is another man's fish.
I thought id was the uncivilized, primitive side. Ego-our everyday reality and supergo-a conscience. Not that I know any orthodox Freudians today. It has been a long time for me. I feel our physical bodies root us in reality. This topic reminds me of George Harrison songs. Beware of Maya.
wearewatchingyouman the programmer is a blind process, the darwinian algorithm. Schopenhauer talked about some kind of blind "Will" too.
jgnat indeed we are a kind of verb and not a noun. But I'm not a thinking, not a writing and not a speaking. We only relate to the verb to be. But what is a verb without a noun? What is an object without a subject? Or a subject without objects?
frankiespeakin yes I like Jung. Do you know about MBTI? I'm typed as an INTP. Very interesting stuff.
punkofnice if there's some duality between object and subject, it's hard to say what is reality. But I tend to privilege the subjective view of reality.
What could be the objective reality without a subject? But if the subject is a thing in itself why the hell it needs to manifest in an objective world? Reality seems to be more consistent if you take dreams as reality. I think we just dismiss dreams as being the main reality because we do not have free will in dreams. But even without free will the dreams can be very pleasant. That's makes me wonder why worry about the existence of free will. Dreams prove to us that we can be very happy without free will. But just imagine dreams with free will? Man, I think that's the true reality: free will conscious in a dream! LOL
If someday (some says in 2045) we achieve to know how to upload our minds to a programmable substrate (computronium) we will be able to creat (hyper realistic) virtual environments to live. If the technological singularity is possible, we'll reach that reality. I hope so.
A small stroke can remove the sense of self.
http://www.ted.com/talks/jill_bolte_taylor_s_powerful_stroke_of_insight
I'm not saying that the boy is what gives us our sense of self, but our reasoning side is the self's spokesman. Because we do write, speak, articulate, the boy exists.
Just as a footprint in the sand infers a foot.
