Memorial 2014: Wrong date?

by AnnOMaly 53 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    Thanks Ann, any ideas on how they got this wrong?

    Jews celebrate Seder/Passover at the sunset which starts Nisan 15.

    JWs celebrate the Lord's Evening Meal/Last Supper at the sunset which starts Nisan 14.

    Questions: was the Last Supper supposed to have been a Passover meal? Was Jesus sacrificed late into Passover day (after Passover meal) or at the same time lambs were slaughtered in anticipation of the Passover meal following the next sunset? It all affects the timing.

    Anyway, for the purposes of holding Memorial Night in JW-land, which is meant to be Nisan 14, it looks as though they may be celebrating on Nisan 15 by mistake. It might be down to the WT writer's astronomy software for thinking that the new crescent wasn't visible on March 31.

    I remember a few years a go the Org. was a whole month out from Passover. The Jews added a leap month that the Org. ignored.

  • TD
    TD
    Questions: was the Last Supper supposed to have been a Passover meal? Was Jesus sacrificed late into Passover day (after Passover meal) or at the same time lambs were slaughtered in anticipation of the Passover meal following the next sunset? It all affects the timing.

    How do JW's interpret this? (Luke 22)

    "The day of the unfermented cakes now arrived, on which the passover [victim] must be sacrificed; and he dispatched Peter and John, saying: “Go and get the passover ready for us to eat.” ..... At length when the hour came, he reclined at the table, and the apostles with him."

    Do they believe it means what it says or do they apply an esoteric JW spin to it?

  • QC
    QC

    Correct, using a calendar conversion. Very interesting.

    Nisan 14, 7:30 pm (Hebrew calendar, 12h format) is Sunday April 13, 19:30 (Gregorian calendar, 24h format)

    Thanks Ann

  • TD
    TD
    Nisan 14, 7:30 pm (Hebrew calendar, 12h format) is Sunday April 13, 19:30 pm (Gregorian calendar, 24h format)

    --And since JW's (apparently) believe that this is wrong and that Nisan 14, 7:30 is in reality Monday, April 14, 19:30, their Memorial actually corresponds to Seder this year (?)

  • QC
    QC

    So, to be authentic, the Memrial celebration would have to be done before Monday NOON, April 14th. Past AM Monday, noon, you are celebating the Memorial on Nisan 15.

    That's a big deal. A big mistake!

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    How do JW's interpret this? (Luke 22)

    "The day of the unfermented cakes now arrived, on which the passover [victim] must be sacrificed; and he dispatched Peter and John, saying: “Go and get the passover ready for us to eat.” ..... At length when the hour came, he reclined at the table, and the apostles with him."

    Do they believe it means what it says or do they apply an esoteric JW spin to it?

    The same edition of the WT, previous article, has a section on that - http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2013925#p14

    (Now the indents don't work! LOL.)

    ----[QUOTE]----

    "The Pentateuch and Haftorahs points out that Exodus 12:6 says that the lamb was to be slaughtered 'between the two evenings.' Some Bible versions use exactly that expression. Others, including the Jewish Tanakh, translate it 'at twilight.' Still others, 'at dusk,' 'during the evening twilight,' or 'around sundown.' So the lamb was to be slaughtered after the sun had set but while there was still light, at the start of Nisan 14.

    "In later times, some Jews thought that it would have taken hours to slaughter all the lambs brought to the temple. So Exodus 12:6 was understood to refer to the end of Nisan 14, between the time when the sun started to decline (after noon) and the end of the day at sunset. But if that were the meaning, when would the meal have been eaten? Professor Jonathan Klawans, a specialist in ancient Judaism, noted: 'The new day begins with the setting of the sun, so the sacrifice is made on the 14th but the beginning of Passover and the meal are actually on the 15th, although this sequence of dates is not specified in Exodus.' He also wrote: 'Rabbinic literature . . . does not even claim to be telling us how the Seder [Passover meal] was performed before the destruction of the Temple' in 70 C.E.—Italics ours."

    ----[UNQUOTE]----

    The WT's quotes from Professor Klawans, the "specialist in ancient Judaism," are used to cast doubt on the Jews' later interpretation about 'the two evenings' when the lambs were killed, i.e. the afternoon of Nisan 14 before the Passover meal at sundown Nisan 15 - 1) Exodus doesn't specify that order and 2) Rabbinic literature is silent on the matter. The JW application must be the right one, correct?

    When we check Klawans' article ...

    http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/people-cultures-in-the-bible/jesus-historical-jesus/was-jesus-last-supper-a-seder/

    ... after discussing ALL the available evidence, he actually concludes:

    "Was the Last Supper a Passover Seder? Most likely, it was not."

    There was a thread on it a few weeks ago.

  • TD
    TD
    Past AM Monday, noon, you are celebating the Memorial on Nisan 15.

    Passover seder actually is technically celebrated on Nisan 15th.

    If JW's disagree with that, then how do they explain passages like this?

    "And they proceeded to pull away from Ram′e·ses in the first month, on the fifteenth day of the first month. Directly the day after the passover the sons of Israel went out with uplifted hand before the eyes of all the Egyptians." (Numbers 33:3)

    If the day directly after passover was the 15th, then the evening prior would technically have been the 15th too

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    You know, TD, the WT Library CD-ROM has no comment on the timing in Num. 33:3. Curious, that.

  • TD
    TD

    "Was the Last Supper a Passover Seder? Most likely, it was not"

    LOL - Thanks Annomaly!

    Why am I not surprised that they quote a source as authoritative and then disagree with the conclusion?

  • wizzstick
    wizzstick

    Hmm, interesting theory but when I type it in I get:

    #https://www.hebcal.com/converter/?hd=14&hm=Nisan&hy=5774&h2g=1

    What am I doing wrong?

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