What was the "logical straw" that broke your camel's back?

by Pacopoolio 35 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Pacopoolio

  I had a bunch of tiny little nags that always bothered me about The Bible/God/etc. that eventually led to me drifting away, but this was my personal, singular issue that no one could address. I think I mentioned it before here, but, for summation again:

  As a late teen, I got into web programming. That got me to think more logically, as I was constantly dealing with logical rules that followed logical progression. It began training my brain to completely think in those kinds of terms.

  One day, I had to give a #4 talk about Adam and Eve or something, and the simplest thing just clicked:

  1) What makes a person is a combination of their biology, experiences, and how their biology impacts their experiences. Our brains are essentially really, really complex computers, our programming is set by a mix of our initial birthing and the experiences it is exposed to.

  2) As such, we have no -actual- control over what we do because our actions are dictated by how our brains work, which is dictated by our biology and experiences up until the point in which we make a decision.

  3) While us making mistakes and "going bad" falls under the umbrella of "imperfection" with certain Christian theology, Adam, Eve, and Satan were created "perfect" and did not have that starting flaw.

  4) If God created their biology (or spirit biology), and created the environment that they were placed in, then God is by default, at fault because he made something that would inevitably turn out badly. It is EXACTLY the same as me programming an application, and it failing, and me blaming the application for failing because "I made it perfectly, it decided to fail on its own."

  5) Therefore, God makes mistakes and isn't as smart as Christianity makes him out to be, correct?

  I raised these (irrefutable) points to parents and elders, and got the same ridiculous answers from all. Basically, in answer to all of my questions:
  
  1) "Yes, that is what makes a person."
  
  2) "We do have control over our decisions because we're free moral agents with free will."

  This is the first break. I would always respond with, "But you just said, as biological organisms, we are a result of our biology and environment. That means all of our choices are illusions by default; an intelligent enough brain that saw every bit of our biology and influence would be able to predict every single thing we did before we did it for that reason!"

  The response would always show a bit of anger or irritation, and then a shift in questioning. "Are you saying people aren't responsible for their own actions?" would be the general response. I would normally say something non-committal like "I'm not saying anything, I just raised two points in combination with each other that we all agree on, so how does that work?"
  
  The same with 3/4/5. Same exact breaks. The repeat of the catchphrase "free moral agents." "But God created them, he MADE how their braisn work, he made a brain that would inevitably go wrong if placed in that environment!" And the response, "Are you saying God isn't perfect?!" And the same refusal to get caught in a future disfellowshipping-trap.

  When I -did- give the talk; I tried something. I basically stated; "Hey, when it all comes down to it, no matter how fair or not fair things may seem - we are God's creations, and as creations of his, he has the right to get rid of us if he feels like it. It's just him being kind enough not to just get rid of all of us that keeps us here." This is basically an accurate representation of the OT God, in my opinion, and says that people are just whims he can get rid of via "might makes right."

  ...People in the audience nodded, and after the talk a couple of people came up to me and said I made a great point, and they had never thought about it that way, and it made them feel even better about staying in Jehovah's graces. I was incredulous.

  That was when the scales were lifted from my eyes more than anything that I can recall. After that, cognitive dissonace and a lot of the logical contradictions in the Bible and Christianity, including and especially JW beliefs and practices, fell completely into place. And it was that road that led me to where I am now.

  How about you guys? Any logical issues that just ended up being the "lightning bolt" that finally hit you?
• 

  sspo

  Always had doubts about 144k going to heaven. Not enough scriptures to back that doctrine that came out of the book of Revelation, a book written in signs and symbols.

  As i went from door to door always hoping that i never had to defend that doctrine and look like a fool.

  That was one, but most of the doctrines as i look back don't make any sense.
• 

  AlphaMan

  This was back in October of 1995, but I remember it like yesterday. I had resigned as an elder about 2-3 weeks earlier after just not being able to stand the hypocrisy of the JW religion or it's internal politics anymore. It was Thurday TMS/SM night and I was sitting on the right side of the KH. I just got to thinking about things during the meeting. My final conclusion was nothing really doctrinal.....I just came to the conclusion that this JW routine of service & meetings (along with how JW worship is done), and with all the dysfunction in the religion.....THAT THERE WAS NO WAY THIS COULD BE THE TRUE RELIGION AND JW's GOD'S ONLY PEOPLE. I made a decision that I had to get my kids (age 16 & 14) out now, so that they would have time to be normal before they became adults. I left with my family and never returned again, nor read any Watchtower literature. Both my kids graduated from college, and vaguely remember our JW life.
• 

  Pacopoolio

  sspo; That was one of my favorites too.

  144,000? That's literal. The twelve tribes they're drawn from in the same context? Figurative because there are tribes that aren't actual Israelite tribes!

  The worst part about my personal Bible Study were the attempts at getting me at, like, 8 to understand where the Society got 1914 from (counting "Times" and stuff from Daniel prophecies that made no sense). Even then, numerology didn't ring true to me.
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  DATA-DOG

  There were many little things along the way. When I read from 'The Harp of God' and saw that the WTBTS was teaching 1874 for decades AFTER 1914, I was gobsmacked. Seeing that Jwfacts.com was being completely honest was an eye-opener. It was a real "WTF??!?!" moment for me, followed by, " THOSE BASTARDS!" Then the hits just kept coming...

  DD
• 

  prologos

  started with the "superior authorities" reversal to pre-1929, and then the FADS of 1919 vintage. all those spiritually starving billions from Pentecost to Rutherford of all people. including the name JEHOVAH fabricators just thrown under the bus.

  That camel was already burdenend by a big pile. sad to see it go,

  but wait there is more to come

  wait until october. not in Muenchen, NJ.
• 

  SAHS

  For me, it was the combination of all of those ridiculously numerous inconsistencies and falsehoods. The WTS says that it can prove that we are in the “last days” of this “system of things” because “everything dovetails together” in the signs and events. However, I, or anyone else, can easily prove that the WTS is not “spirit directed” in any way and most certainly is not and could not be the “one-and-only true religion” because all those inconsistencies and falsehoods (lies) all dovetail together to prove that it isn’t or couldn’t. Yes, everything does fit like a key – to prove that the WTS is just another quirky sect/cult as full of lies as the rest of them.
• 

  trebor

  Researching blood issue and whether not to 'accept' certain blood components. Using the Watchtower CD-ROM library, came across the previous stance on organ transplants being cannibalistic and women are worthy of everlasting destruction if they did not scream/cry out when being raped.

  It's not 'early' Jehovah's Witnesses/Watchtower teachings either - Stuff covers the 1960's-80's (and arguably into the 1990's regarding the rape stance).

  The floodgates opened from that point. All bets were off... Shortly thereafter, found out about their United Nations (Non-Government-Organization) membership and their additional hypocritical as well as covered-up support of Johannes Greber.
• 

  Robert7

  THE final straw was WWII and the haughty view the JWs have on the brothers that died in the concentration camps. (of course I had other issues, but this was that final straw) I always had this nagging issue with this attitude over about 10,000 JWs dying, when 6 million Jews died. It completely disrespected the deaths and suffering of the Jews.

  I remember that service meeting, December 2007, where a brother, yet again, mentioned WWII and how the brothers remained strong under persecution and my resentment on the complete disregard of the 6 million Jews. Then 'snap', that moment I decided I was no longer a JW.

  The dissonance built up over the years, and that night it all came crumbling down, triggered by one comment about JWs in WWII.

  I joined this site that evening, searching for experiences of others like me, and only went to a handful of meeting after that.
• 

  Comatose

  For me it was the Neanderthals and the flood. Then when I found the quote mining as I honestly tried to study the new creation brochure I was rocked to my core. I could mentally gymnastic my way around the society not fully understanding Neanderthals, until I realized that screwed up the original sin concept. And if original sin goes then what about Jesus? If Adam and Eve are not real then Jesus goes poof. That was tough for me to digest. I stayed confused and drank too much for a year and a half. Then I owned up to the fact that I needed to confront my questions. I quit drinking. I went ahead and thought the whole Neanderthal, Adam, flood, and Jesus problem through. It just can't fit.

  Then the quote mining showed me it wasn't just that the "brothers" were behind the times or needed "new light", no they were intentionally misleading people with the quote mining. What else were they misleading about? Floodgates were opened.