The Revelation of Saint John the Divine

by Caupon 17 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  villagegirl

  The whole basis for the "faithful and discreet slave" being eight men

  in New York City and trying to link this idea to a scripture falls apart

  when you read the references, namely Matt25: 20,21,22

  because if you read it TWO of the slaves given talents

  were approved and called faithful slaves, two not one single slave.

  So who is the other faithful slave mentioned ?

  The indentifying mark for a true Christian is always referencing

  "taking care of widows and orphans" and Matthew 25:35-40 where Jesus

  says "I was hungry and you fed me, naked and you clothed me...."

  identifying actions towards others as the way to identify a Christian.

  There is no use arguing WT doctrine to figure it out, because it is all false

  doctrine, anti-Christ teachings from the top to the bottom, from pyamids

  at the start, with Russell to what you have today in those eight men,

  its an organization that keeps people from Christ, that is its main function

  tells them they are not worthy to drink the wine and eat the bread

  in memory of him.

  And then it demotes Christ to Angel status when the scriptures

  say the angels worshipped him. That - is anti-Christ.
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  Band on the Run

  Pagels was my prof. during college. She said that Romans were censoring literature in general. If you wrote something unkind and named the Emperor or an important family, you could be executed. John used numbers that all his readers would recognize. The Romans looked the other way at numbers. The writer of Revelation inserted the numbers. Pagels gave us a list of what all the "scary" numbers in Revelation meant. Basically, it was a code for political/religious commentary. When his prophecy failed, the generations that would recognize the meaning ended. Every generation for a long time has come up with links to its political/social challenges.

  Revelation has been interpreted to mean: The American Revolution, the French Revolution, the rise of Napoleon, Bolshevisim, etc. There were many interpretations during the Middle Ages but I am not as conversant with the history. It is a Rorschach test. (sp?), I believe the execution of Charles I of England was also tied to Revelation.
• 

  designs

  Band- nice
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  kaik

  I had read books from E. Pagels and I liked the Gnostic Gospels and Origin of Satan. I had it in my library but my JW family threw it away as apostate literature. Band, did you studied at Princeton University where she is right now?

  Roman Empire always enforced censorship. Even during the prosperous era of the Principate. Octavianus Augustus is blamed for censorship that ended the golden age of the Latin literature. During his reign two the most influential intellectuals committed suicicde, including Labienus Rabienus, who disagree with the censorship and the imperial order having books burned. Other writers, historians, and intellectuals were bannished from empire. Cassius Severus ended in Crete while Ovid was exilled to Romania among the Scythians. The imperial politics destroyed independent intellectual education and freedom. The latin literature recovered after Augustus and Tiberius.

  The Book of Revelation had profound effect in medieval times, especially in the Kingdom of Bohemia in the second decade of the 15th century. Catholic Europe was divided by schism and several reformers had arose in the Holy Roman Empire to criticize the Roman Papacy and Imperial office. The biggest critics came from the Czech speaking population under John Huss. The antichrist was identified by persona of Emperor Zikmund and the whore of Babylon the Roman Church. The papacy in Avignon was compared to 70 years of exile in Babylon. The arcbishop of Prague painted scene of four horseman of apocalypse in his residency. The end of time fever hit all time high in 1419 when excommunicated dominican monk prophecised that end for that summer. I am not sure how he came up to that year as he calculated it from the destruction of Jerusalem in 135, but he was off by 14 years and added 1260 year to the get 1419. About 1 million people gathered in the summer of 1419 on the hills around Bohemian kingdom to await the return of Jesus Christ. As nothing had happened, huge dissapointment lead to Hussite War which devastated much of the Central Europe in the following years. The followers of the failed 1419 prophecy were hunted down and burned on stakes. The city of Pilsen played a pivotal role in the Hussite Revolution as the failed Armageddon caused the city to turn back into Roman Catholicism and became a bastion of catholicism in Czech society for next 500 years.
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  Caupon

  Some profound information about the final book of the holy canon. This was unpredictable, but I just realized that the Revelation by the evangelist of the Jesus has done more harm than good. It is almost as if that book intended to cause trouble with all the bizarre things occurring in it. That one million person tragedy that kaik mentioned is an examble of what this book has done. Let us not forget the dragon of verses 3-17 of its twelth chapter which is creepy to say at most. Enjoyed the in depth research of the prophetic apocalypse's history. Never could have done any of this myself. Looking forward to more facts about these matters. Botr, thank you again for your info.
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  kaik

  The issue with the 1419 prophecy turned into mass hysteria. The brother of the emperor Zikmund was Bohemian king Vaclav IV who died August 16, 1419. This was a symbol for the masses that the Jesus will return as there was no king (Vaclav IV did not had children), Zikmund was identified with Antichrist, and Catholic church was corrupt Babylon. Medieval kingdom of Bohemia ecompassing present day Czech Republic was bigger, it included Silesia and Lositania and until 1415 also Brandenburg. It had about 3 million people from which is estimated about 1/3 showed at the hills end of August-beginning of September to await Jesus's return. Even Jews and other were caught up in the hysteria, including queen widow, bishops, and imperial army. Of course, nothing happened and the big blame turned into mutual excommunication and extermination. The era before 1419 was ripe for the Armageddon as based on the book of Revelation. Black Death, recurring plague (1380,1414), collapse of the currency in Central Europe (1396), devaluation of silver in coinage (1409), famine, extensive heatwaves, 100 Years War, and Catholic church dealing with Schism (it had one point three popes, one in Avignon, other in Pisa and Rome). People believed that they live through the end of the times. Some dissapointed followers even committed suicide. Other communities engaged in free love and created liberal oasis called Adamites. Anyone was born at the end of the 14th century thought that they were the last generation. Exactly as did Russell in 1874-1916.
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  Crazyguy

  the JW sister is wrong, the JW's teach that these ones today are anointed and are actually part of this 144k not descendents of them. The book of Revelations only says that number from the twelve tribes are sealed, protected from the 4 winds of destruction and from the locust that harass the ones without the seal later in the book.
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  dog is god

  Elaine Pagels is da bomb!!!!!