Jesus: DEMI-GOD? In a pagan Roman Empire, it was only natural!

by Terry 10 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    When you and I were born we started absorbing the beliefs and culture surrounding us. (The word for this is: Ethos.)

    As we grew older we absorbed the beliefs and cultures we experienced among our friends. If we moved to a new city or state or country we absorbed the customs and culture and language (ethos) in order to be a part of society.

    Jehovah's Witness kids learn a combination of "belief" along with a heavy dose of "disbelief." That is the JW ethos.

    But, early in history among Jews and Pagans there was a sharp contrast of culture and belief. Jews were monotheistic. Pagans were inclined toward a pantheon of Gods and Demi-gods.

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    DEMI-GOD: a figure who has attained divine status after death, a minor deity, or a mortal who is the offspring of a god and a human.

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    How could you ever blend the two polar opposite belief systems? Is it unthinkable?

    1.Jews BEFORE the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. were stalwart montheists. After the Diaspora they went underground and Jewish-Christians were outnumbered by Pagan-Christians. These were people saturated with pagan culture and concepts. Jewish type monotheism would be unnatural and unthinkable to them.

    2.Christianity was a split 3-ways: Messianic Jews, Gentile-Christians, Pagan-christian hybrids.

    The world these three groups lived in was fluent in GREEK and ROMAN religious ideas, culture, practice and belief.

    Thus, we come to the idea of the DEMI-GOD and how Jesus might be construed in the pattern of this current belief universal.

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    What was a Greek or Roman pagan referring to when he or she spoke about a DEMI-GOD?

    A demigod is a half mortal, half God. A demigod posses God like characteristic, in which some are humanly impossible, or exaggerations in which a mortal couldn't obtain; however posses certain mortal characteristics which leaves them vulnerable by mortal standards.

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    How do Christians defend against the accusation that Jesus fit the definition of a Demi-God?

    Christians shaped their rebuttals over time until, after many debates, arguments and conferences they INVENTED an Ad Hoc definition.

    How does this refute the Demi-God definition?

    Jesus is asserted out of necessity into being FULLY god and FULLY human BOTH simultaneously!

    In the marketplace of "ideas" the Christian sought to have the better product.

    A fully god and fully human WINS the contest or competition in that battle of concepts.

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    Why would Christians who were originally Jewish ever accept such a pagan definition into their monotheistic religion?

    Tribal Jews absorbed into Greek culture against their will just as they were absorbed into Persian and Babylonian culture previously. The Jews born into a new culture cannot help but pick up the language and customs no matter how hard their parents may resist.

    Alexander the Great conquered the known world and spread Greek religious ideas along with language. In a relatively short time (a few Centuries) Jews could not even speak Hebrew any longer. This is the main reason their scriptures were forced into the Greek language. (Septuagint).

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    What sort of demi-gods were Jews exposed to? What were the stories and characteristics they'd hear about and absorb into their thinking?

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    What makes the Christian definition of God, Jesus, Son, Holy Spirit and Trinity so ungraspable in a rational way today is:

    the fact it is a definition BY COMMITTEE!

    We must ask "When" and "Where" this committee convened, and what THEIR ETHOS was at the time!

    As seen above, it was a time and culture and ethos of Demi-gods!

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    Think of the Healthcare Debate as an example. In the last few years groups FOR and AGAINST the Health Care Law convened and argued.

    Thousands of pages nobody could clearly and fully explain were produced from this argument.

    Yet, one side (with the power to vote it through) was ready to rubber-stamp it into law (over protest by the opposition.)

    This is how a bureaucracy works.

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    Scripture is by committee, canon is by committee, and Jesus is too.

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    For 2000 years the Catholic bureaucracy dominated the world with Ad Hoc pronouncements of what was TRUTH and pure worship.

    Then, Protestants tore that up and invented their own AD HOC way of shaping Jesus, God, the Bible and pure worship.

    Modern Day Christianity is deuces-wild, anything goes, brand name denominational vamping on the same themes.

    Christianity is a buffet lunch in a Smorgasbord eatery.

    You pick and choose what to put on your plate and you leave the rest behind!

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    Christians had to compete with already-existing religious superstar deities!

    Jesus is a new and improved, low-fat, extra-crispy, fat-free, low-sodium, three-for-the-price of one fully-god/fully-human brand!

    We are parroting a description of the winner in a My-God-Is-Better-than-yours contest where each believer gets to describe the best

    imaginative character traits imaginable.

    This was not done dishonestly either!

    It was AS NEEDED.

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    If you needed for Christianity to BE something that would refute your pagan opposers, you simply had to interpret into existence! It is like the magic bag of tricks Felix the Cat has. Scripture was the bag of tricks.

    Every time a copyist, translator, scribe or authorizing potentate produced scripture copies IT WAS FILTERED through the necessity of proving or explicating SOME CURRENT PROBLEM of contention.

    Remember, the New World Translation put ammunition in the Jehovah's Witness theology for debate/teaching/proof purposes.

    The Kabbalah allowed Medieval Jews to reinterpret scripture to meet the needs of the Dark Ages.

    Martin Luther wrestled with the Catholic bible and--PRESTO! A new and improved Protestant stream of scripture opened up interpretive possibilities!

    Jesus is a malleable character who is much, much different to Christianity today than he was in various epochs in the past. Each had their own proprietary version as needed.

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    Well, let's test out my premise by exercising intelligence, shall we?

    I'm saying that pagans who believed in demi-gods had a world view that would DEMAND things fit into that world view.

    Pagans would INTERPRET what they saw and heard IN TERMS of Gods, demi-gods and (the then) current myth.

    Jews interpreted things through the lens of Judaism, Greeks through Greek philosophy, Romans through Greco-Roman ethos.

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    Let's give an example of how that might happen.

    Turn in your bible to Acts the 14th Chapter and read starting in verse 8.

    Paul and Barnabas in Lystra

    8 Now in Lystra there was a man sitting down who couldn't use his feet. He had been crippled from birth and had never walked. 9 He was listening to Paul as he spoke. Paul watched him closely, and when he saw that he had faith to be healed, 10 he said in a loud voice, “Stand up straight on your feet!” Then the man jumped up and began to walk.

    11 When the crowds saw what Paul had done, they shouted in the Lycaonian language, “The gods have become like men and have come down to us!”

    12 They began to call Barnabas Zeus, and Paul Hermes, because he was the main speaker.

    13 The priest of the temple of Zeus, which was just outside the city, brought bulls and garlands to the gates. He and the crowds wanted to offer sacrifices.

    14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their clothes and rushed out into the crowd, shouting,

    15 Men, why are you doing this? We are merely human beings with natures like yours. We are telling you the good news so you’ll turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth, the sea, and everything in them.

    16 In past generations he allowed all the nations to go their own ways,

    17 yet he has not abandoned his witness: he continues to do good, to give you rain from heaven, to give you fruitful seasons, to fill you with food and your hearts with joy.” 18 Even by saying this, it was all Paul and Barnabas could do to keep the crowds from offering sacrifices to them.

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    It should not surprise us that people who think in terms of THEIR OWN BELIEF SYSTEM interpret according to that belief.

    Unlike other cities Paul visited, Lystra apparently had no synagogue, though Timothy and his mother and grandmother were Jewish Perhaps for the first time in his missionary work, Paul was reaching Gentiles with the gospel of Christ without approaching them through the common ground of Judaism.

    What about today, in 2014, with almost 40,000 Christian denominations?

    Is the Mormon Jesus different from the Jehovah’s Witness’ Jesus? Is the Catholic Jesus different from the Baptist’s Jesus? Is the Christian Science Jesus different from the Methodist’s Jesus? And so on. . .

    I rest my argument.

  • fulltimestudent
    fulltimestudent

    Generally, a very useful perspective from which to view the changing concepts of the Jesus that most Christians of the mid first century had never seen.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I should realize neither JW's nor EX-JW's are likely to be interested in this topic.

    But, I seek to understand how things come to be the way they are. The idea of the TRINITY has always

    seemed elusive to rational comprehension. I wanted to piece the elements together so that the arrival

    at the committe/counsel acceptance and adoption of the weird definition (3 in 1 and yet only 1) made

    sense in a less strained way.

    This topic was mostly my way of pulling that together.

    Whether it is sensible or even acceptable by others I cannot answer.

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    Yes! It IS cool the way God waited until man was able to begin to understand, through philosophical means, roles He was meant to fulfill. With the Holy Spirit's illumination of the (fundamentalist) mind "stayed" on God...perfect.

    Galatians 4:4

    :)

  • Nika Bee
    Nika Bee

    I find this quite interesting, and have never thought about it this way.

    Humans tend to be very rigid in their world view, where they "come from" matters how they view other cltures, people, etc. It seems to be the easiest way to make sense of the unkown. This was so 2000 years ago and it is so today - wether we meet people from other countries and cultures today, or read about societies and cultures from history.

    It seems to be quite puzzling, that a person that supposedly lived 2000 years ago and some ancient scriptures have so much influence even today. Each of the different christian groups and religions claim that they are in the tradition of the "first christians". We seem to project our experiences on the society and culture 2000 years ago, but fail to see that arriving at where we are today was a process, where so many different influences played a role.

    We just label things and concepts new, and make them fit into our world view.

    It is a scary thought, that this influences people's lifes so much, even up to live and dead decisions.

  • Terry
    Terry

    I'll never forget the moment when the hair went up on the back of my neck as I realized "being Christian" meant thousands and thousands of

    different things to different people instead of just ONE thing to all people.

    It solved a mystery.

    A great peace came over me.

    It explained so much.

    There are as many Jesus's as there are believers IN "Jesus."

    There are as many gods, too. We all use the word and we're not seeing, thinking, or believing the same "reality."

    It is like saying: "I have a sense of humor". . . so personal, quirky and particular.

    There was never a Judaism or Christianity that meant one thing to all.

    The Bible meant many things to many people and continues to do so.

    It is an amazing realization.

  • designs
    designs

    Who was it Dr. James White, the apologist, who lamented that most Christians are modalists and not true blue Trinitarians (its just easier on the brain).

    I found Christians are just as different on the topic of the Eucharist (communion). Transubstantiation or symbolism, big difference.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Let's not forget how many explanations/interpretations/doctrines there are over the subject of GRACE!

    Greek χάρις ( charis )

    Each church and denomination has a proprietary way of explaining and believing! It is quite amazing (ha ha ha ha, get it?)

  • myelaine
    myelaine

    There really is only one Jesus. The fact that people have formed conclusions based on incomplete information doesn't mean there are actually many Jesus'.

    To use the illustration of the blind men and the elephant (and take it further) if you weren't blind you could see that there was only that one elephant. (matt. 20:29-34)

    "It solved a mystery. A great peace came over me." ~ Terry ...if you find "relief" in blindness...

    The NT writers did describe the real Jesus in different ways ie: the Lamb, the Babe in a manger, the King, the Saviour, the Bread from heaven, the Truth, and the Son of God; making it easier (I think) to relate to Him from wherever you are...so to speak.

    But there is only one complete Jesus. The Lord who Paul met on the road to damascus.

    Paul was zealous for judaisim and persecuted the early church (gal. 1:13-14). He went so far as to stand back and allow people to stone stephan. This action (or non-action) made him responsible for his murder under judaisim's law. Under the law (which he WAS zealous for) he would have to forfeit his own life to be "right" before HIS God. (gal. 2:19) The ONLY one who could forgive THIS jewish man was God Himself. (dan. 9:9-10; mark 2:7; ex. 23:13; joel 2:32)

    After meeting the real Jesus on the road to damascus he received (gal 1:12) the forgiveness of HIS God (gal. 2:20).

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    the book of galatians tells us that part of the gospel paul preached WAS the judaic law. Specifically he taught HOW Jesus personally fulfilled the Holy Festivals on the jewish calendar. I say this because the jewish christians who came after paul and preached to the gentile christians were able to turn them to following some of the requirements of the law (gal. 4:9-11). Like paul said, these judaizers weren't preaching a different gospel, (gal. 1:6-7) they were distorting what he had already taught by introducting works/requirements of the law instead of grace in Christ. (from freedom to bondage...james 2:10)

    What paul taught was that Jesus already fulfilled the first jewish Holy Festivals. This was the Christ foundation he built on (gal 2:18)...this is how/why he lived by faith!

    paul saw how Jesus fulfilled the ONLY faith he was personally zealous for. He preached this same (fundimentalist) gospel in every gentile church he planted. we also know this because he warned his congregation that regardless of WHO came around preaching, if they preached another gospel...they were wrong and their message was accursed. (gal. 1:8-9)...clarity requires that every church had the same foundational message so that travellers from one church to another would receive the same teaching.

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    "the annual festival or feast in hebrew is a "set time" or 'appointed time" (heb. #2287/2283,2328)

    a "holy convocation" or "sacred assembly" carries the meaning of rehearsal or recital (heb. #4744/7121,7122)

    a feast appointed by God as rehearsals are for the purpose of revealing the Messiah (col. 2:16-17) and completeing God's overall plan."

    * festivals Jesus already personally fulfilled (ex. 23:14; luke 22:19-20; 1 cor. 11:23-25)

    - passover/unleavened bread

    - first fruits

    - pentecost

    * festivals Jesus will fulfill when the jews are gathered into the presence of the Lord God.

    - trumpets

    - day of atonement

    - tabernacles

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    love michelle

  • designs
    designs

    Michelle- Paul makes so many errors in his understanding of Judaism and its Messiah its laughable that anyone would consider him Jewish.

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