If the Watchtower Represents Jehovah, How Come They Don't Share In Public Forums Like St. Paul?

by RottenRiley 29 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • LogCon
    LogCon

    IF the end of most of the world's population is in danger of complete destruction AND that destruction is coming quickly, any day now, AND it is coming at God's hand by means of his heavenly forces at Armageddon AND God's chosen messengers are the 8 Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, they should not just be printing literature and putting it on magazine carts in malls.

    They should be banging on the front door of the White House, the Kremlin, every government building, every embassay, every church, every Muslim/Hindu/Sikh/Budhist/etc. temple on earth

    SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF THEIR LUNGS, 'REPENT -THE END IS NEAR'.

  • designs
    designs

    LogCon- I think the Wt. gets it that if you scream this message to loud you come off as bat shit crazy. I saw the Van Impe's TV show and they were going on about the Pope is the last Pope and the Second Coming will come this year, bat shit crazy time.

  • RottenRiley
    RottenRiley

    Ruby whose private home was the Areopagus? My Bible say's Paul spoke with the men there and even used one of the alters to get their attention, they were philosopher and enjoyed discussions of meta-human things, or was that a private home?

    The Bible is filled with more examples of Public Speaking than "Private Home Debates", how did you miss all the accounts? Paul before Rome, before the Jewish Court, Paul before Festus, Aggripa, Felix, Bernice and his many tours throughout Asia Minor and the Middle East.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Areopagus You can examine the history of the Aeropagus and evaluate it if you think it's a private home.

  • LogCon
    LogCon

    designs

    When the tsunami was heading for Japan, would someone who knew and really believed it, say to himself, 'Crimony, I better not go banging on my neighbours doors SCREAMING AT THE TOP OF MY LUNGS THAT A TSUNAMI IS COMING', because their going to think I'm b...s...c... ?

  • DATA-DOG
    DATA-DOG

    They would lose every argument...

    CRITERIA FOR TRUTH

    1) God's word is the ultimate source of truth.

    2) Truth is the correct understanding of God's word.

    3) Jesus' words are truth.

    4) No "truth" can contradict another "truth." If there is a contradiction, only one can be true.

    5) Truth does not change. Truth remains truth. [ not so with men's ideas ]

    6) No probabilities or assumptions allowed. God's true prophets never prophesied in probabilities or assumptions. Exactly what they said came true.

    7) Truth is verifiable facts.

    Just call the a-holes at World Headquarters. All they can do is lie.

    DD

  • RottenRiley
    RottenRiley

    I listened to Island Man's call to the Watchtower about "Should you leave your religion if you feel it's false" based off the Awake, if that Bethel Elder is the caliber of their talent, they would float like a lead ballon! I like the points you make, they are grossly incompetent and offer nothing to Society, they are "Takers" and nothing more, thank you Data-Dog!

  • blondie
    blondie

    *** w54 8/15 pp. 510-511 Questions From Readers ***

    Questions From Readers

    ● Does the Watch Tower Society accept challenges to debate publicly the Scripturalness of various religious teachings?—J. P., United States.

    Christ Jesus is recommended as “leaving you a model for you to follow his steps closely.” The methods he used to preach did not include debates. When in the course of events he was in the presence of the opposing religious leaders of his time he did enter into discussions with them, refuting their falsehoods and defending and preaching the truth of Jehovah’s Word. But he did not prearrange such meetings or formally assemble for such. In fact, relative to dealing with the false religious leaders he instructed his disciples: “Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” Jesus set an example of preaching to assembled groups in public places, but the principal instruction he gave his disciples pertained to preaching at the doors of the people. Taking this as the model, Jehovah’s witnesses today concentrate on this method of preaching, at the same time using the additional methods of Jesus and the apostles.—1 Pet. 2:21; Matt. 15:14; 10:5-15; Acts 5:42; 20:20, NW.

    Usually those wanting to debate are more interested in getting attention and publicity than they are in presenting the truth. It is not necessarily the truth that is acclaimed victorious by those who listen to a debate. Crowds are not always reasonable. They are swayed by bombastic oratory and showy eloquence aimed at the emotions rather than the mind. In a debate as much error as truth is presented, and by playing upon emotions and personal prejudices the final conclusions of many hearers may often favor the error. In the tense climate of a debate reason and logic are frequently ignored, except by one who has the spirit of Jehovah. A legally or judicially trained mind can separate the emotion from the fact and evaluate properly, but audiences generally are not so discerning. A more calm atmosphere is needed for unbiased thinking. Each side usually thinks it has won, and often some who were neutral or undecided find themselves more confused after the debating is over.

    To determine the Scripturalness of a teaching we must go to the Bible and calmly weigh all the texts bearing on the point under consideration. The ideal place to do this is in a home, with the two or few involved sitting at a table with open Bibles, dispassionately considering the evidence to “make sure of all things; hold fast to what is right.” (1 Thess. 5:21, NW) If a person is in doubt as to a doctrine, he can have a minister from a religion that believes it come to his home and discuss it. The next evening he can have a minister from a group that says it is false. Or he may even wish to have a minister from each group there the same evening and ask questions and hear the discussion. Thus the truth will be more likely to get calm and careful attention, as also will the falsehood. Sincere ones honestly searching for the truth will see the advantage of this method, whereas those interested more in exciting controversy and grabbing publicity will clamor for the emotional, oratorical debate.

    Christians do not debate with dissenters in their own congregation, knowing it can deteriorate into degrading bickering and quarreling: “Now I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who create divisions and causes for stumbling contrary to the teaching which you have learned, and avoid them.” Christians are also counseled: “Further, turn down foolish and speculative questionings, knowing they produce fights. But a slave of the Lord does not need to fight, but needs to be tactful toward all, qualified to teach, keeping himself restrained under evil, instructing with mildness those not favorably disposed, as perhaps God may give them repentance leading to an accurate knowledge of truth, and they may come back to their proper senses out from the snare of the Devil, seeing that they have been caught alive by him for the will of that one.” (Rom. 16:17; 2 Tim. 2:23-26, NW) Regardless of prior promises to the contrary, debates may lose restraint and mildness on the part of those not having the spirit of Jehovah and may degenerate into unbecoming quarreling and strife and emotionalism by such.

    Hence the Watch Tower Society does not now adopt debating as a means of preaching the good news of the Kingdom. One of its representatives may be a guest speaker before a different denominational group, when invited, and may entertain questions afterward; but it is understood beforehand the session is not a debate and will not be allowed to deteriorate into such. The glorious good news deserves a dignified presentation, without a disorderly clamor by the opposers: “For God is a God, not of disorder, but of peace.”—1 Cor. 14:26-33, NW.

    *** yb75 pp. 54-56 Part 1—United States of America ***

    In what later appeared to be an attempt by the Pittsburgh ministerial alliance to discredit C. T. Russell’s scholarship and Biblical views, on March 10, 1903, Dr. E. L. Eaton, minister of the North Avenue Methodist Episcopal Church, challenged Russell to a six-day debate. During each session of this debate, held that autumn in Allegheny’s Carnegie Hall, on the whole Russell came off victorious. Among other things, he Scripturally maintained that the souls of the dead are unconscious while their bodies are in the grave and that the object of both Christ’s second coming and the millennium is the blessing of all the families of the earth. Russell also made a very strong Biblical denial of the hellfire doctrine. Reportedly, one clergyman approached him after the last session of the debate and said: “I am glad to see you turn the hose on hell and put out the fire.” Interestingly, after this debate many members of Eaton’s congregation became Bible Students.

    Another significant debate took place on February 23-28, 1908, at Cincinnati, Ohio, between C. T. Russell and L. S. White of the “Disciple” denomination. Thousands attended. Russell courageously upheld such Scriptural teachings as the unconscious state of the dead between death and resurrection, and Biblically maintained that Christ’s second coming will precede the millennium and that the object of both is the blessing of all families of the earth. Hazelle and Helen Krull were present and tell us: “Beauty and harmony of truth and fine Scriptural arguments on each subject of debate stood out in stark contrast to the confusing teachings of men. At one point ‘Elder White,’ spokesman and debater for the opposing views, in desperation said that he was reminded of a sign over a blacksmith shop reading ‘All kinds of twisting and turning done here.’ But, to the honest truth seeker, was a demonstration of ‘handling the word of the truth aright’ [on the part of Russell; 2 Tim. 2:15], with resultant harmony.” The Krull sisters recall that Jehovah blessed Brother Russell with His spirit to present the truth ably, and they term the event “a triumph of truth over error.”

    J. F. Rutherford accepted a Baptist debate challenge in behalf of the Watch Tower Society against J. H. Troy. It took place in April 1915 at the Trinity Auditorium in Los Angeles, California, before an audience of 12,000 (with an estimated 10,000 being turned away for lack of space) during the four nights of the debate. Rutherford was victorious in courageously defending Bible truth.

    In the twelve years following the Eaton-Russell debate, other debating challenges were accepted by God’s servants, though the opponents, perhaps out of fear, usually called off the engagements. C. T. Russell himself did not favor debates, for he was aware of their disadvantages for Christians. In The Watch Tower of May 1, 1915, he pointed out, among other things, that ‘those who are of the truth are bound by the Golden Rule and their presentation must be along absolutely fair lines, whereas their opponents seem to have no restrictions or restraints.’ “Any kind of argument,” wrote Russell, “regardless of the context, regardless of the Golden Rule, regardless of everything, is considered permissible.” He also stated: “So far as the Editor is concerned, he has no desire for further debates. He does not favor debating, believing that it rarely accomplishes good and often arouses anger, malice, bitterness, etc., in both speakers and hearers. Rather he sets before those who desire to hear it, orally and in print, the message of the Lord’s Word and leaves to opponents such presentations of the error as they see fit to make and find opportunity to exploit.—Hebrews 4:12.”

    Bible discourses themselves afforded better opportunities to present Scriptural truths, and C. T. Russell often spoke to large audiences. During the years of 1905 to 1907, for instance, he toured the United States and Canada by special train or car and conducted a series of one-day conventions. His public lecture then was “To Hell and Back.” Delivered before packed houses in nearly every large city in both countries, this discourse featured a humorous, imaginary trip to hell and back. Louise Cosby recalls that Russell agreed to give this lecture in Lynchburg, Virginia, and she says: “My father had big posters made advertising this lecture and got permission to place them on the front of the streetcars. This was quite amusing and people asked, If this car takes us to hell, will it bring us back?”

    *** dx30-85 Debates ***

    Rutherford-Westlake: g30 5/28 566-567

    Rutherford challenges clergy: fc40 30; co 4; g36 7/29 677; g36 8/12 719-720; g36 11/18 127; g34 1/31 268-269; cs33 41-42; g32 5/25 515-531

  • RottenRiley
    RottenRiley

    Awesome Blondie, thank you for taking the time to post to this thread. Why was Brother Russell more courageous than his latter counter-parts Ruthernut, Knorr, Franz and ??? I stopped caring after Franz.

    Who from the Watchtower could sit down before the leading Atheists speakers on the circuit and sound rational? I don't see anyone from the Watchtower matching witts against Dr. William Lane Craig, Ravi Zacharias, Dr. John Lennox, Dr. Steve Meyer, Micheal Behe, Dr. Jeff Zweerink, ect.. This list is tiny, keeping the thread to it's idea, who from the Watchtower could take the place of any of these scholars I posted? The point is the Watchtower is arrogant and refuses to stand their ground on their own Doctrines, Ethics, Morality and Philosophical arguments, how can Witnesses be so certain they have the Truth when their leaders are too cowardly to preach to outside audiences and engage with leading thinkers of Theology?

    We know the Watchtower can change their entire teachings overnight and few Witnesses would have the moral fiber to take a stand. The issue of Blood, how do they justify what parts of blood are not violating the Jewish Law? I hope someone can post a JW Scholar who could sit down with Lawerence Krausse or Dr. Greene from Columbia and answer question in a coherent manner.

  • smiddy
    smiddy

    If my memory serves me right , in the 60`s their was a program on TV ch.7 in melbourne australia , I think on a friday night where a subject was debated by two people , with an audience in the studio.The subject was to do with religion and a preist was up against a JW by the name Kinnimoth , or something sounding like that .I was a new convert at the time and at first the vibes from the audience was against the witness however he skillfully won them over with his presentation using the bible .The preist never used the bible and seemed to be very ill prepared.

    That program had a big impact in my identifying with JW`s back then.

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    Yup Russell used to debate, but he wasn't trying to debate things like he is the fullment of the faithful slave, etc. Can you imagine the GB debating and they are asked to address how the faithful slave is not a parable and how it applies to themselves alone? I'd even pay admission to watch that.

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