Here we go again. Dan 4 and 1914

by leaving_quietly 74 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  AnnOMaly

  If I might ask, what Gregorian years do you end up with when you factor in the solstices and the equinoxes to the 360 day-years, when subtracting 607 and 587 years from 2520?

  I don't understand the question. A solar year is slightly less than 365¼ days. The Gregorian calendar year is 365 days with a leap day added every 4 years to make up the lost ¼ day per year. The Jewish schematic year of 360+4 days is short a day from the Gregorian calendar year. However, the WTS sees the 360 day year as a 'prophetic' year and doesn't take into account equinox and solstice (epagomenal) days. They just treat it as a straight 360 day year.

  Scripture Inspired, p. 282 pars. 22-23 Study Number 2—Time and the Holy Scriptures

  22 Prophetic “Year.” In Bible prophecy the word “year” is often used in a special sense as the equivalent of 12 months, each month having 30 days, for a total of 360 days. Note what one authority says in commenting on Ezekiel 4:5, 6: “We must suppose that Ezekiel knew a year of 360 days. This is neither a true solar year nor is it a lunar year. It is an ‘average’ year in which each month has 30 days.”*

  [* Biblical Calendars, 1961, by J. Van Goudoever, page 75.]

  23 A prophetic year is also called a “time,” and a study of Revelation 11:2, 3 and 12:6, 14 reveals how one “time” is reckoned as 360 days. In prophecy a year is occasionally also represented symbolically by a “day.”—Ezek. 4:5, 6.

  I couldn't find the other post Leolaia did, until now, where she goes into more detail - click HERE.

  As I say, it's all contrived anyway - the numerological hops, skips and jumps required.
• 

  wizzstick

  Historically we can get the 607 archeological sequences in

  Rubbish. Utter lie.

  You can no longer disprove 607.

  Sorry that should read: No one could ever prove 607.

  Perhaps you intelligent people like besty can get a theologian with a degree in history, bribe that person, it shouldn’t cost more than 2 million and have that person discredit the entire historical community about the Babylonian chronicles VAT 4956, BM 22047, BM 21946, or how the bible talks about the desolation of the land of Judea or just Jerusalem is unsubstantiated double talk by junior theologians.

  Could we have that in English? None of the above makes any sense.
• 

  AnnOMaly

  None of billy's posts make any sense. They're gibberish with lots of name-calling thrown in.

  Where did I put that pesticide?

  Ah, here it is.

  
• 

  DATA-DOG

  LOL!! Troll B Gone!!!

  Billythekid, PLEASE STOP DEFENDING US!!
• 

  BluesBrother

  I used to be well impressed by all this "chronology" of the WTS. (Well, I was young at the time) It rather went over my head, as I believe it does with most dubs but I felt that their must some clever people in Brooklyb to have worked all this out - "It has to be H/Spirit, right? " ....Wrong! I now believe

  In the recent article on JW.Org.

  The “seven times” began in October 607 B.C.E., when, according to Bible chronology, Jerusalem was destroyed by the Babylonians. *—2 Kings 25:1, 8-10.

  How long are the “seven times”? They could not be merely seven years as in Nebuchadnezzar’s case. Jesus indicated the answer when he said that “Jerusalem [a symbol of God’s rulership] will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.” (Luke 21:24) “The appointed times of the nations,” the period during which God allowed his rulership to be “trampled on by the nations,” are the same as the “seven times” of Daniel chapter 4. This means that the “seven times” were still under way even when Jesus was on earth.

  The Bible provides the way to determine the length of those prophetic “seven times.” It says that three and a half “times” equal 1,260 days, so “seven times” equal twice that number, or 2,520 days. (Revelation 12:6, 14) Applying the prophetic rule “a day for a year,” the 2,520 days represent 2,520 years. Therefore, the “seven times,” or 2,520 years, would end in October 1914.—Numbers 14:34; Ezekiel 4:6.

  Notice that it is "Bible Chronology " that points to 607 BCE not archaology, that means that they can put it how they want to , and claim that it is "The Bible", although it is not.

  Seven times? We have discussed in this thead the 360 days / 365 days differences. In order to get to 2520 years they link scriptures from Daniel and Revelation not to mention sometimes Ezekial and Numbers to get a day for a year. Are these scriptures really linked in any way? I do not think so.

  Who laid down the "prophetic rule"? that used to puzzle me but I know now, it was the wacky Adventists of the Victorian days who have been discredited. There was William Miller, the architect of the "great disappointment" ...and Nelson Barbour from whom C T Russel split in acrimony because he denied the Ransom doctrine. Why stick to the "rules " that they laid down? Surely it should be discarded like other "false doctrines of Christendom"?

  Anyway, if I read Mathew 24 and other related scriptures now, it seems to me that Jesus is saying that we should not know the "day of his coming" and rather live everyday in expectation but not have worked out the times...just carry on doing what Christians ought to -in the way that Christian people have done for Centuries.

  I am not a scholar and all the complex stuff on this subject makes my brain ache....but that is my take on it .........
• 

  punkofnice

  Historically we can get the 607 archeological sequences

  Please explain. Show the sequences and how they follow.
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  leaving_quietly

  Aside from the fact that this prophecy is totally made up, it's linked to a prophecy Jesus gave at Luke 21:24:

  And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

  Now, let's read it in context (vs. 20-24):

  However, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by encamped armies, then know that the desolating of her has drawn near. Then let those in Ju·de′a begin fleeing to the mountains, let those in the midst of her leave, and let those in the countryside not enter into her, because these are days for meting out justice in order that all the things written may be fulfilled. Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! For there will be great distress on the land and wrath against this people. And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

  Hang on. Even more context (vs. 5-7):

  Later, when some were speaking about the temple, how it was adorned with fine stones and dedicated things, he said: “As for these things that you now see, the days will come when not a stone will be left upon a stone and not be thrown down.” Then they questioned him, saying: “Teacher, when will these things actually be, and what will be the sign when these things are to occur?

  So, this is a prophecy about the last days, the parallel to Matthew 24. If the last days BEGAN in 1914, how could this part of the prophecy END in 1914?

  Also, how could this prophecy be talking about something in the past from Jesus' perspective?

  And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.

  I'm no English major, but the phrase "will be" indicates something in the future, not in the past.

  Wow, oh, wow, oh, wow! This whole prophecy is debunked so many different ways it's absolutely stupid for WTBTS to keep propogating it!
• 

  Island Man

  billythekid46, 1914 has already been thoroughly debunked for the specualtions of men that it is! Here's one example of a debate where an active, but awake JW utterly picks apart 1914, showing that it's based on lots of unfounded assumptions, speculations and eisegesis:

  http://meletivivlon.com/discussion/1914-2/apollos-vs-jw/

  You have to be utterly ignorant of the facts and listening only to Watchtower propaganda to think that 1914 is a sound doctrine. Here's one example of how easily 1914 is disproved based on Watchtower's own claims regarding Luke 21:24:

  Jesus said Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the times of the nations are fulfilled, correct? So when the times of the nations are fulfilled Jerusalem will cease being trampled on, correct? So did Jerusalem cease being trampled on in 1914? Did anointed christians - the amabassadors of the heavenly Jerusalem - cease being persecuted in 1914? Remember: Jesus said that those persecuting his brothers are persecuting him and he is the King of the heavenly Jerusalem. So if anointed christians on earth are being trampled on by the nations, then by extension, Jesus, the king of heavenly Jerusalem and hence heavenly Jerusalem, is being trampled on!

  History would show that the anointed of JWs have had their worst persecutions after 1914. This proves that the times of the nations continue. - aside from the obvious fact that the worldly governments continue to lead globally. DUH! So there! The trampling of the nations mentioned at Luke 21:24 has obviously not yet been completed and the times of the nations have therefore not ended.

  But of course, we all know that Watchtower's claims about the time of the start of the trampling mentioned in Luke 21:24 is just wishful speculation. The context of Luke 21 shows that Jesus was speaking about the trampling by the nations that would come after the Roman incursion around 66-70 CE. Additionally, Watchtower's linking of the times of the nations mentioned in Luke 21:24 with the seven times of Daniel 4 is nothing but arbitrary, wishful specuation.

  Here's another proof from scripture that christ's presence did not start in 1914:

  Look at what James 5:7 says:

  "Exercise patience, therefore, brothers, until the presence of the Lord. Look! The farmer keeps waiting for the precious fruit of the earth, exercising patience over it until he gets the early rain and the late rain."

  Did you notice the use of the word until in the first half of the verse? What does until mean, but that when the presence of the Lord starts there will no longer be any need to exercise patience. For at that time christians on earth will all be gathered out of this trial-ridden world to the Lord in heaven. (See 2 Thessalonians 2:1). So James 5:7 implicitly teaches that christians no longer have to patiently wait for relief when christ's presence begins for at that time they will receive the fulfillment of the promise.

  Now compare this with the current Watchtower teaching that christ's presence began in 1914. A young anointed christian anointed before 1914 would have had to continue exercising patience his entire life down to our time without letup - all supposedly after the start of christ's presence in 1914! How has James words to exercise patience until the presence been valid in any way since he has had to continue exercising patience his entire life after the presence began? So you see, the Watchtower's 1914 century long invisible presence doctrine makes the words of James 5:7 invalid!
• 

  quellycatface

  I hated that book at the book study, among others.
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  ablebodiedman

  I am convinced that the most important thing to take away from Daniel Chapter 4 is this statement:

  Daniel 4:30

  "Is not this Babylon the Great, that I myself have built for the royal house with the strength of my might and for the dignity of my majesty?"

  Immediately after saying this Neb·u·chad·nez´zar was helped to understand who it was that set up Babylon the Great.

  Having learned such a hard lesson from the bible then who do you think set up the "Babylon the Great" in the Book of Revelation?

  Having an answer to that question now helps the reader to better understand what Daniel 2:44 is trying to tell us.

  What was the last kingdom that God "set up" ( about 2000 years ago) and who is king of that kingdom?

  So what is the next and final kingdom that will not be ruined?

  Daniel 2:44

  　"And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;

  Yes, Daniel Chapter 4 trashes almost every Christian doctrine out there, including the WTBTS!

  abe