What are the flaws in the argument presented in the link below?
http://creation.com/noah-and-genetics
Where do the Neanderthals come into it?
Bill Nye/Ken Ham Creation-Evolution Debate Here: V
by mind blown 41 Replies latest watchtower bible
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bohm
Caroline: the two most obvious problems with the argument is that the existence of a y-chromosome adam or a mitochondrial eve is a simple consequence of how sexual reproduction work and does not as such confirm or disconfirm the evolutionary or creationist account of life.
what could confirm the creationist account is if the age of eg. The mitochondrial eve or adam matched the genesis account. It does not, by about 100000 years, and properly worse their ago does not agree With each other. What it does match is archeological evidence of the last great radiation out of africa.
the article basically misrepresents the evidence.
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garyneal
Bill Nye mentioned Danville, Virginia USA during the debate. Small world.
On another note, I did not find the debate too informative and Bill missed opportunities to point out contradictions in the Bible and even contradictions in Ham's arguments. At one point Ham mention a sediment of rock that encased some organic material (wood if I remember correctly). He stated that the organic material was 40,000 years old and the rock was much older according to science. Bill's response was that the rock fell on top of the wood. Why did not Bill just say, "Well, both of them are much older than what you claim the Earth is!"
It does not matter anyway as those who agree with Ham will think he won the debate and those who agree with Bill Nye will think he won the debate. Just like every other publicized creation vs evolution / theist vs atheist debate.
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Finkelstein
I find it hard to believe in this day and age of knowledge, reasoning and logic from derived evidence
that some people in the world believe in the story of Noah's flood.
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Here's something to ponder on you believers ?
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Why would the god of the ancient Hebrews kill the majority of mankind including all the innocent
because of the sin and wickedness in the world when the sin of Adam and Eve were still with Noah's
family, resulting in the world returning back to its original state before the flood ?
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Sorry just having some fun.
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The most likely fact to these and other stories in the bible is that the ancient Hebrews wanted
to create a semblance or power and relevance toward their select god, in the same time
distinguishing their sect over others who practiced polytheism with many gods.
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That being the case the bible should only be used as historical reference upon one ancient civilization,
that being the ancient Hebrew sect who inhabited the land of Israel, who were originaly from the
land of Canaan, making the Hebrews originally Canaanites.
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jgnat
I got interested enough to take notes, but I left them in my other bag. I don't think Ham was that interested even in winning his debate. Rather, he got a platform to reinforce his views with the radical right Christian fringe and shamelessly plug his facility...bring the kiddies. He accused science with indoctrination several times.
I must point out in fairness that Nye also concluded with his chief reason for being there; to preserve science education in America. I think he won the hearts of middle America.
It is unfortunate that Ham treated the arguments as equal when really, there's no contest. Ham has the outrageous claims and the unshakeable faith. It was his unshakeableness that he was broadcasting to his followers.
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adamah
jgnat said- It is unfortunate that Ham treated the arguments as equal when really, there's no contest. Ham has the outrageous claims and the unshakeable faith. It was his unshakeableness that he was broadcasting to his followers.
Of course, many believers would see Ham's persistence and faith as a sign of his strength and perseverence under attack from Satan, when secularists would label it as dogmatism. In looking at Ham though, I could see how believer's might interpret his words and stance in a favorable light, since he was sharing a familiar message they've heard in Church. People tend to respond more favorably to the familiar, and not necessarily to the truth...
I dunno if you saw the unscientific poll results posted on Christianity Today that showed something like over 90% of participants saying that Nye won, but as is expected, the claims are arising that atheists are attempting to "spike" the polls, LOL. I wonder if it's not because Ham has lost support from the more-mainstream non-literalist Xians who are parting ways from YEC Xians like Ham?
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Ahab
Nye made good solid points to refute Ham's arguements.
But everyone has part of the truth if you look deep enough.
Frankly I'm suspicious of those that merely engage in name-calling. "People that believe as Ham are merely ignorant country bumpkins". Well... they're also human beings.
In past centuries the God/Religious World View was dominant and often abused it's power. Today the materialistic/scientific/technology World View holds sway, and sometimes in it's representives have a Pharisee-like contempt for faith-based beliefs of powerless, uneducated people.
Don't just get stuck on the side points of things that seem to most of us to seem absurd: "six literal days". Perhaps the larger point from Ham is that their is a Spiritual World that encompasses the material world, one created by God. Science can only study the material. The metaphysical is deeper. Ham has delusions like all of us; but none of us have the whole truth.
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jgnat
Ham's beliefs are not deeper, they are a dead end.
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jgnat
Here are my notes, but they make more sense as you are watching the video. The numbers are the time stamp.
28:29 Appeal to authority (videos of creationist scientists listing their credentials)
31:14 Confirmation Bias - intends to reinforce existing creationists, by inserting the idea of persecution. I don't have any respect for the speaker any more. He is not going to even try and win the debate, only reinforce existing followers.
36:09 False Equivalence. Just because Nye agreed to the debate, does not mean your arguments are equal!
51:48 Advertising
56:30 Slippery Slope. What's next? Athiest graduates? Oh, my! The decline of Western civilization as we know it!
1:42:11 "We didn't see the tree rings laid down". Well, if that isn't a scientific observation killer, I don't know what is!
There's plenty of things we don't see but we can infer from their deposit, their radiation, their wake, what had just been there.