This weeks book study and Bible Hi-lites

by bobld 13 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • bobld

    God can be our special friend.We can get to know him by his creative works and his word the bible.He provided a ransom(Jesus) for sinners.A friend who cares about you,understands you and is loyal.

    However,would you want God to be your friend after you read the Bible hi-lites.A God who burns people with alive with fire and sulfur:Gen19. If your friend talked to you like this,Abimelach,You are a dead man,for that woman you have taken is already married:Gen 20.(side note remember K.David)

  • Jon Preston
    Jon Preston

    I love how it brought out that God was not hiddn or hiding and we could realky interact with him.....weeeell he isnt righ here, he is hiddn especially if hes using Jesus to do all his work and all jesus we can get close to right? But Gods off doin his on stuff apparently.

  • Bobcat

    Since you mentioned the Bible Highlights . . .

    There was an interesting change in Genesis 19:20 in the rNWT.

    • (Genesis 19:20 old NWT) "Please, now, this city is nearby to flee there and it is a small thing. May I, please, escape there—is it not a small thing?—and my soul will live on."
    • (Genesis 19:20 rNWT) "Please, now, this town is nearby and I can flee there; it is only a small place. May I, please escape there? It is only a small place. Then I will survive."

    See here for how other translations render the verse. The old NWT has Lot making his request and saying that 'the request was a small thing to ask.' The new one has Lot saying that the town he wants to flee to is small.

    What I'm finding with the rNWT one is:

    • They often revert to what most other translations already had. (So much for "new light" and "food at the proper time." This is also ironic when compared with all the hype that was given the old NWT versus other translations.)
    • They've let go of the literalness for understandableness in the phrasing. I see this as a mixed bag. On the one hand, I'm glad they've updated it with newer Greek texts and attempted to make the english more readable. On the other hand, I found the usually literal rendering of the old one, although stiff - even very much so - to still be useful for studying. It had a quasi-interlinear feel to it.
  • Pistoff

    "They often revert to what most other translations already had. (So much for "new light" and "food at the proper time." This is also ironic when compared with all the hype that was given the old NWT versus other translations.)"

    Yes, sadly, the irony will likely never be appreciated by most witnesses.

  • tiki

    that is very weird. it makes more sense that the request to flee to a certain location is a "small request" rather than requesting to flee to a "small place"....what would be the point of it being a small vs. a large place?

  • Bobcat

    Lot's request is a play on the name Zoar (so'ar) which means something like "insignificant." The NAC-Genesis commentary (Vol II, p. 247) points out that there are verbal links between Lot's discussion here and Abraham's discussion with the angel in chapter 18 where he bargains for Sodom if a few righteous men could be found in it. Per Abraham's 'bargaining' in chapter 18, little Zoar ends up getting spared for the sake of one 'righteous man,' Lot.

  • problemaddict

    It is no small thing to be determinin if Lor is tring to convince God that him going there is a minor issue, or if he is appealing to the size of the town he is asking to go to for some reason.

    Those seem like completely different things.

  • Bobcat

    determinin if Lor is tring to convince God that him going there is a minor issue, or if he is appealing to the size of the town

    Here is the Hebrew (note the placement of "and [waw conjunctive in the Heb.] it is a little place/thing" - immediately after referring to the city but before the actual request) and here is a multilingual page on the verse (for any who can read any of the other languages). I haven't seen any, so far, that have taken it as referring to the 'size of the request.'

    I thought that maybe the old NWT's stodgy literalness just sounds like it is referring to the size of the request. Technically, "It is a small thing," could be referring to the city. No reference I've seen so far takes it as referring to the request. So I was thinking that maybe I was just reading that thought into the phrase. But I wasn't. In the old NWT there is a reference column scripture after the first occurrance of the phrase, "it is a small thing." The reference is to 2 Kings 3:18 which reads in the old NWT:

    • "And this will indeed be a trivial thing in the eyes of Jehovah, and he will certainly give Mo′ab into YOUR hand."

    Verse 21 (of Genesis 19) in the old NWT also gives the impression that it is the request that is small:

    • So he said to him: “Here I do show you consideration to this extent also, by my not overthrowing the city of which you have spoken.

    But a footnote points out that "consideration to this extent" literally reads "consideration in this thing." So it appears (to me) that the rendering, "consideration to this extent," was a result of having already understand "it is a small thing" as referring to the request, not the city. Also note how the rNWT has completely changed this verse too:

    • So he [the angel] said to him: "Very well, I will also show you consideration by not overthrowing the town you speak of."

    Incidentally, the Brenton translation of the LXX also has:

    • "Behold this city is near for me to escape thither, which is a small one, and there shall I be preserved, is it not little? and my soul shall live because of thee."

    And here is Josephus' account of the episode (Ant 1.11.4, 5):

    • "Now he and his daughters fled to a certain small place, encompassed with the fire, and settled in it. It is to this day called Zoar, for that is the word which the Hebrews use for a small thing. There it was that they lived a miserable life, on account of his having no company, and his want of provision. But his daughters, thinking that all mankind were destroyed [evidently meaning 'outside of Zoar' - Bobcat], approached to their father, though taking care not to be perceived . . . [in order to get pregnant by him]" (This was curious to me because Josephus understood the destructive fire to be all around Zoar. And how Josephus understood the daughters' reasoning for getting pregnant by their father.)

    Both Brenton and Josephus understanding it to be the city that was small.


    what would be the point of it being a small vs. a large place?

    The NAC commentary mentioned above has this to say about that (p. 240):

    • His [Lot's] contention is that the angels can spare the little town for his sake, and they can still achieve their main objective. The reasoning reminds us again of Abraham before the Lord; justice, he contends, requires sparing the wicked for the sake of a few. Ironically, this is what occurs at Zoar; although a member of the wicked cities, the angels spare it because of Lot. Such allusions promote the prophetic image of Abraham.

    As I mentioned above, the account has a number of verbal allusions back to Abraham's discussion about the fate of the towns in chapter 18. This forms part of the commentary's reasoning in the account with Lot in chapter 19. Unger's OT commentary is very similar with regard to this account.

    At any rate, not to get hung up on this; "It is a small thing." But it is curious what you find when you start digging.

    Take Care

  • WTWizard

    Just read Genesis chapters 2 and the first part of 3. Would you want your "friend" to have to resort to death threats to keep its subjects in line? Or, would you rather have a friend that wishes to extricate you from such tyranny so you can live according to human nature, even at great cost to Himself?

  • Bobcat

    Interesting comparison with this weeks Bible Highlights (2/2/14 - Genesis chapters 21-24)

    • (Genesis 22:18) . . .And by means of your seed all nations of the earth will certainly bless themselves due to the fact that you have listened to my voice.. . .

    This is an echo or repeat of the promise made in Genesis 12:3 and 18:18 -

    • (Genesis 12:3) . . .And I will bless those who bless you, and him that calls down evil upon you I shall curse, and all the families of the ground will certainly bless themselves by means of you.

    • (Genesis 18:18) . . .Abraham is surely going to become a nation great and mighty, and all the nations of the earth must bless themselves by means of him.

    The WT's position on this is that:

    • Jesus is the primary seed of Abraham
    • The 144,000 (only anointed ones) are the secondary seed of Abraham
    • The "nations of the earth"/"families of the ground" represent everyone else who will eventually benefit from Abraham's seed, although not being of that seed or being anointed Christians

    The Apostle Paul, on the other hand, viewed it quite differently:

    • (Galatians 3:7-9) . . .Surely YOU know that those who adhere to faith are the ones who are sons of Abraham. 8 Now the Scripture, seeing in advance that God would declare people of the nations righteous due to faith, declared the good news beforehand to Abraham, namely: “By means of you all the nations will be blessed.” 9 Consequently those who adhere to faith are being blessed together with faithful Abraham.

    Paul understood that "those who adhere to faith" were "sons of Abraham" (Abraham's seed via their faith in Jesus, in the same way that Jacob was Abraham's seed via his relationship with Isaac - Galatians 3:16) Then Paul quotes from the promise in Genesis about 'the nations being blessed' to support the idea that Gentiles ("the nations") would become Abraham's seed by having faith in Jesus. And Paul indicates that it was already happening: "are being blessed." Paul also pointed out that these same "nations" that were being blessed to become "Abraham's seed" were also the ones receiving "the promised spirit":

    • (Galatians 3:14) . . .The purpose was that the blessing of Abraham might come to be by means of Jesus Christ for the nations, that we might receive the promised spirit through our faith.

    I commented on this during the highlights without mentioning that it contradicted WT theology but nary an eye was batted.

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