by objectivetruth 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Would Disasociation / Disfellowshipment be Appropriate?
When someone is disfellowshipped or disassociates themself an anouncement is made that: "[Name of person] is no longer a Jehovah's Witness"
Romans 9:26
26
and in the place where it was said to them, ‘YOU are not my people,’ there they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’"
"[Name of person] is no longer a Jehovah's Witness" - ‘YOU are not my people,’
abe
Isaiah 66:5
5
Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU men who are trembling at his word: "YOUR brothers that are hating YOU, that are excluding YOU by reason of my name, said, ‘May Jehovah be glorified!’ He must also appear with rejoicing on YOUR part, and they are the ones that will be put to shame."
that are excluding YOU by reason of my name ---------------- "[Name of person] is no longer a Jehovah's Witness
abe
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that are excluding YOU by reason of my name ---------------- "[Name of person] is no longer a Jehovah's Witness
To the best of my knowledge there is NO OTHER RELIGION on this planet capable of fulfilling the scripture above!!!!!!
abe
So who is Babylon The Great?
John 16:1-4
16
"I have spoken these things to YOU that YOU may not be stumbled. 2 Men will expel YOU from the synagogue. In fact, the hour is coming when everyone that kills YOU will imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God. 3 But they will do these things because they have not come to know either the Father or me. 4 Nevertheless, I have spoken these things to YOU that, when the hour for them arrives, YOU may remember I told them to YOU.
2 Thessalonians 1:6-8
6
This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for YOU, 7 but, to YOU who suffer tribulation, relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance upon those who do not know God
Do you see the profundity that eldudes most Christians?
Please remember that Jeremiah was talking about the physical city of Babylon and its captives and NOT to any future event. The fact that Revelation references "Babylon" is an allusion so that the readers can have inset imagery for which to base emotion, feeling, size, dimension, etc.
Plus, Revelation has no place for literalism. But if you must, Babylon the Great (quite possibly STILL describing the physical city of Babylon) is written about as a whore to the nations, sitting on many waters. It is just assumed by the WTBTS that it is "false religion." But at the time of its writing, faith and politics were intertwined.
At the time of the WTBTS creation, they were in the United States where there is a seperation of Church and State. Two very different times in history. It is assumed that if Revelation 17/18 is talking about someone in bed with the kings of the world that it must be the olther ruling power of force: religion. There's no scripture that supports that Babylon the Great is false religion as a stand-alone entity. There really isn't much to say it's religous in nature at all. It could be (as I mentioned) the physical city of Babylon, it's could be another nation, it could be religious, it could be a trait or even a characteristic. But most likely it was intended to be any nation against Christ and his followers.
Thank You all again...
I will need to review all of this as we'll.. There are quite a few good points, that have to be weighed against everything else.
One other thing that I'm factoring into All of this is, Matthew 13:30 - " Let both grow together until the harvest, and in the harvest season, I will tell the reapers: First collect the weeds and bind them in bundles to burn them up; then gather the wheat into my storehouse.’
I believe the wheat and the weeds to be Some sort of Christian's - Not just a "Member" of a christian church, rather A Christian that has received the free gift of holy spirit to some extent.
It seems to be significant, that they are growing together. Could this mean, they are members of a Christian Church? Or does it mean, they are not members of a denomination and they are the body of Christ?
Matthew 13... not one of the most efficient lessons in agriculture, I'm afraid.
ObjectiveTruth:
What do you feel is Required to “Get Out of Her”?
It meant, in one context, that the Christians of his day were to separate themselves from the Jewish nation, which was under condemnation. For general counsel, it means to withdraw one’s self from the world and its wickedness. There are many things in our society that are perfectly legal, but which have dire moral implications and consequences. We must separate ourselves from the world’s sense of morality and ethics and embrace those that have been given us by God and his prophets.
Would Disassociation/Disfellowshiping be Appropriate?
Appropriate for what? Getting out of a false religion? Not really. If the WTS has no authority from God, then membership is just a figment. It's just a meaningless piece of paper which you can ignore.
If one chose not to Disassociate himself, would it be Wrong to still Attend Meetings with the hope of Turning some to the Bible?
God has no commandments on which churches you can attend or not attend (otherwise, how could anyone discover the truth?). Not attending the church of your choice is a stipulation that only false religions impose. Naturally this would not include cults that engage in ritual human sacrifice, Satanism and the like. But the Lord expects people to search for truth, and you can’t do that by staying away from all religious sects. If your purpose is to attend Kingdom Halls in the hopes of bringing people out, that would be a bit dicey. I wouldn’t want to be responsible for destroying someone’s faith, having them lose their wife and children or turning them to atheism. As strange as it seems, some Jehovah’s Witnesses are actually happy in their faith. I don’t believe for an instant that Jehovah’s Witnesses go to an everlasting Hell because they happen to belong to the wrong church.
When Jesus Speaks of the Scribes & Pharisees do you feel that these could be Compared to the Elders or the GB?
Or any other corrupt body of false priests or religious leaders who have corrupt understandings of the scriptures. It’s a case of the blind leading the blind, and it’s the overarching problem in the entire religious world, of which the Jehovah’s Witnesses Governing Body is only a tiny part. In other words, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society isn’t the creation of God that fell into apostasy; it never was anything other than a false religion. I’ve always wondered if they’ve individually ever doubted their own legitimacy and callings. Or do the words they hear in their minds convince them it’s of the Holy Spirit.
If the Scribes and Pharisees are among the Religions of Babylon the Great, what would be the Significance of Jesus’ Words at Matthew 3:2,3?” 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you—but not what they do. For they preach, but do not practice.”
I’m not sure that Jesus viewed them in the context of being one of the false religions of Babylon. In fact, if anything, he was respecting the authority of their office, but also saw the corruption in their hearts. As a result, to be absolutely blameless before the Father, he had to be respectful of the “seat of Moses,” and the authority of the Romans. He couldn’t be a rabble rouser, and everything he did had to be done in obedience to those in authority, both theologically and politically. If it weren’t so, he could not have been guiltless when he was put to death.
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Cold Steel - thanks for the comment. It's reasonable & practical. It's clear that Jesus did not refrain from associating, with people just because of their beliefs, or even because of their lifestyle. He healed based on Love and he healed sinners and believers alike.
Something that stands out to me is his method of teaching.. He did not focus on other peoples beliefs, and why they were wrong, rather he convinced them that following him was the best and only way to life. He taught with Love & not Hate.
One last thing, he did not request to be Killed. He simply stuck to the truth, and taught the truth. This is what made people hate him.
