Talking with a nonbeliever...

by suavojr 48 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    In my search for the truth and the burning desire to become free from all forms of dogma and wishful thinking. I have approached my first crossroads in my life, should I continue to believe in a God or not?

    Currently I am leaning toward Agnosticism, but all the suffering in the world, all the loss and pain in my own life makes it hard for me to simply let go of the idea and hope that at the end justice will prevail, that one day God can make it all good.

    So for those of you that has passed this cycle in your journey of truth and freedom. Please help me answer the following questions and arguments that I read by Ron Rhodes.

    No one is born an atheist. People choose to become atheists as much as they choose to become Christians. And no matter how strenuously some may try to deny it, atheism is a belief system. It requires faith that God does not exist.

    (1) Atheist says, "There is no God."

    A person would have to be omniscient and omnipresent to be able to say from his own pool of knowledge that there is no God. Only someone who is capable of being in all places at the same time - with a perfect knowledge of all that is in the universe - can make such a statement based on the facts. To put it another way, a person would have to be God in order to say there is no God.

    This point can be forcefully emphasized by asking the atheist if he has ever visited the Library of Congress in Washington D.C. the library presently contains over 70 million items (books, magazines, journals, etc.). Hundreds of thousands of these were written by scholars and specialists in the various academic fields. Then ask the following question:

    "What percentage of the collective knowledge recorded in the volumes in this library would you say are within your own pool of knowledge and experience?" The atheist will likely respond, "I don't know. I guess a fraction of one percent." You can then ask: "Do you think it is logically possible that God may exist in the 99.9 percent that is outside your pool of knowledge and experience?"

    (2) "I don't believe in God because there is so much evil in the world."

    God is dealing with the problem of evil, but in a progressive way. The false assumption on the part of the atheist is that God's only choice is to deal with evil all at once in a single act. God, however, is dealing with the problem of evil throughout all human history. One day in the future, Christ will return, strip power away from the wicked, and hold all men and women accountable for the things they did during their time on earth. Justice will ultimately prevail. Those who enter eternity without having trusted in Christ for salvation will understand just how effectively God has dealt with the problem of evil.

    "Ok. Let's do it your way. Hypothetically speaking, let's say that at this very moment, God declared that all evil in the world will now simply cease to exist. Every human being on the planet - present company included - would simply vanish into oblivion. Would this solution be preferable to you?"

    Formulate a solution to the problem of evil that (1) does not destroy human freedom, or (2) cause God to violate His nature (e.g., His attributes of absolute holiness, justice, and mercy) in some way. After five minutes, ask him what he came up with. Don't expect much of an answer.

  • suavojr
    suavojr

    Feel free to start the conversation and I will be back tomorrow because I am going to bed now.

  • ingimar
    ingimar

    Religion is the root of most of the evil and wars in the world. People should just focus on how they can make the world a better place because God has failed.

  • lriddle80
    lriddle80

    I would be cautious about not believing in God or Jesus. They are real. One day every knee will bow. Just believe and never look back. Just because you leave JW doesn't mean all is lost. Regroup, do some research and don't give up the faith!!

  • lriddle80
    lriddle80

    I would be cautious about not believing in God or Jesus. They are real. One day every knee will bow. Just believe and never look back. Just because you leave JW doesn't mean all is lost. Regroup, do some research and don't give up the faith!!

  • Oh Gawd
    Oh Gawd

    A simplistic response, which s about all this drivel warrents. would be:

    1. The same response could be used both ways. Although the premise itself is false.

    2. There isn't one shred of evidence contained in the answer. It's 100% opinion.

    3. According to the bible, God has violated human freedom many times and his nature is that of a schizophrenic psychopath, so once again the question is based on a false premise.

  • Doug Mason
    Doug Mason

    suavojr,

    I have travelled the road you describe.

    Remain true to yourself; respect the right of others to their beliefs, and ask for the same in return. Break free from the regimentation imposed by religious leaders; recognise that all wriitngs, including the Bible, are the imaginings and assumptions of men and women.

    Theology, eschatology, soteriology are interesting but nothing more. It does not matter what you think of God - every believer has a different idea anyway - what matters is that if there is a God, what she/he/it thinks of you.

    Do good to others, be satisfied that during your life you have made a contribution to someone.

    Go outside and hear the birds, smell the flowers, marvel at nature, the clouds, the real things that matter.

    As I said, I have travelled the journey you speak of. There is the desire to dip the toe in the water but to hang on to the land. I have gone from rabid believer to agnostic, probably verging as an atheist. I have survived the journey, just as you shall.

    Know with complete confidence that the feared Armagedon and the Divine "Coming" will not take place.

    I wish you freedom - freedom from religion, from the pressures of religionists, freedom from people who want you to feel guilty. Break out.

    Doug

  • happy@last
    happy@last

    I believed in god once because I was told to believe in him, but had no evidence to prove it. Whilst I believed I also believed he had it in for me as well as lots of others. When I became a parent I suddenly felt a love I had never experienced and knew I would do everythingin my power to stop my child from being hurt and as time went on knew that whilst they would experience hurt I would do all in my power to 'fix' it as quickly as possible. It was then that I became deist. Today I find it hard to believe in anything I cannot see with my own eyes or prove to myself that is exists beyond any doubt.

  • The Searcher
    The Searcher

    If God doesn't exist, then God help all of us on planet earth!

    The governments ain't gonna colonise Mars in time, by the looks of things!

  • cofty
    cofty

    Marking for later.

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