Could Jehovah's Witnesses Have Conquered the Roman Empire with the WTS Message?

by RottenRiley 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  RottenRiley

  Christians were known to show love to everyone, they beat down the Pagan empire though a life devoted to loving kindness. Where do Jehovah's Witnesses stand on feeding the poor, helping slaves get out of slavery and donating funds to help Orphanges and Hospitals? Christians from various churches donate to help Africa combat AIDs, get clean water, heating stoves to help cook their food. Homes built to use minimal energy to keep the Africans safe, how does the JW get around helping the Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia?

  The more I read the acts of loving kindness and message of Hope, the more I realize the Early Christians lived for Christ and did not focus on Doomsday, why are JWs the opposite of the First-Sixth Century Christian spirit? Can you please help me understand how the Watchtower and Governing Body can read about the loving acts of kindness and behave the way they do?

  I think the Organization would allow "Ten victims to have their lives destroyed" than worry about getting true justice for all the victims the Organization has cover-up to keep mantain the lie, "We have a Spiritual Paradise", I avoid hiring Jehovah's Witnesses because many of them feel they are entitled to do less work and demand more pay from the brothers. Recently, I made a bad judgement call by giving somebody the name of a JW who specializes in road work, he destroyed the owners property and now is being sued because he did not use the premium product to fix this $3 million dollar house cement and road work, he told the owners "Go ahead and sue me, join the list because I don't have much to take". He is correct because his truck and equipment might fetch $50 on PawnStar Kings.

  How can JWs claim they are Christian or are they not Christian and some type of Witness to another god?
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  DesirousOfChange

  he told the owners "Go ahead and sue me, join the list because I don't have much to take". He is correct because his truck and equipment might fetch $50 on PawnStar Kings.

  Hopefully he has General Liability Insurance. Then they will be suing his insurance company. Anyone who hires a contractor who is not insured deserves what they get.

  Doc
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  RottenRiley

  DOC, that misses the point of Jehovah's Witnesses having a Spiritual Paradise and having what it took to break down the Roman Empire. I think the JWs would have lasted less time than the Cult of Mithra, unless you think it's not wrong to steal from people and if Roman Citizens just had checked the Christians General Liability Insurance, that would have helped the religion grow so big, really big!

  China's leaders are flirting with the idea of bringing back traditional religions to fight off the empty feelings and deep corruption the Chinese have really been plagued by. Chinese should just look for Chinese with Insurance, that will force the corruption to flee from China, not moral principles the leaders of China are tinkering with. I will forward your ideas to China's leader, that will fill the deep void the Chinese are suffering from, maybe you might change your name to "Happy With Status Quo", that's what you sound like!
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  fulltimestudent

  Dear RR, your comments,

  Christians were known to show love to everyone, they beat down the Pagan empire though a life devoted to loving kindness.

  and

  The more I read the acts of loving kindness and message of Hope, the more I realize the Early Christians lived for Christ and did not focus on Doomsday, why are JWs the opposite of the First-Sixth Century Christian spirit?

  intrigue me. Outside of possible church propaganda, do you have any scholarly sources for such sweeping opinions?

  How would you describe the "First-Sixth Century Christian spirit?" And what would be your sources?
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  RottenRiley

  FTS, how big is your schedue for College this Quarter? I enjoy reading your thoughts on Asia and other areas of expertise you are learning about.

  The book that really threw me back was writtn by a man who quit his job as a doctor and decided he wanted to develop a community based on the Early Church Fathers, born in the 1800s in Germany he wrote "They Early Christians in their own Words" by Eberhard Arnold. My Browser will not display the "clip and paste" section until I make the first post, please forgive I will be adjusting this post now. http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-Christians-Their-Words/dp/0874860954

  FTS, the Roman Philosphers and historians do mention how strange Early Christians and Early Church Fathers were, they could not grasp the concept of "Agape Love", they accused the Christians of incest, child murder and atheism (Atheism because the Christians only believed in one God, not polytheistic.) The facts speak for themselves, read about the plagues that hit various areas in the Empire and how Christians were not afriad to put their lives in the hands of God by helping plague victims, nursing them back to health. Christian concepts, the Orphange, the Hospital, Food Lines, hospitals were developed by Christians around the 7th to 8th Century to help with the elderly people being thrown in the streets left to beg, Christians Goofus and Goober with scarce resources were not afraid to share their limited means. Please give the link below a try, he is a Christian but he bases his writtings off the early works of Rome and Christians. I appreciate you asking deeper questions, sometimes I think the questions get shallow here, we need to build up a stronger community and people from both sides can bring their world-view and help each of us learn more.

  My claims are not sweeping, you will discover in various books written by the Early Church Fathers and Roman Philosophers they took issue with the Christians and Charity, Love, taking babbies left to die from exposure by parents who decided a baby was too expensive during the Roman Empires economic slump and famine. The bold acts of Early Christians even after the death of Constantine were pissing Empereor Julian off, he demanded the Roman Pagan religious priest attempt to implement charity.

  You are a Full-Time student, here's a link (I have read the early works this guy is talking about and you can check his referrences too)

  http://www.religiontoday.com/columnists/michael-craven/changing-culture-a-study-in-cultural-engagement-11639668.html

  Thanks for being patient, I don't understand why the 'text and word" panel dissappear until I post the thread and than it comes back. Let me know if this man's quotes from historical sources are not enough and I will add as much as you want until you see that Early Christians were 180 degrees different from the selfish Watchtower brand of mock Christainity.
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  OUTLAW

  Could Jehovah's Witnesses Have Conquered the Roman Empire with the WTS Message?

  .......................................................Of Course!!..

  ...The Roman Empire Would Be Happy To Let JW`s Preach In the Roman Coliseums..

  ...............

  ................................................................................................................................. ...OUTLAW
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  fulltimestudent

  You're quite right DesirousOfChange,

  he told the owners "Go ahead and sue me, join the list because I don't have much to take". He is correct because his truck and equipment might fetch $50 on PawnStar Kings.

  Hopefully he has General Liability Insurance. Then they will be suing his insurance company. Anyone who hires a contractor who is not insured deserves what they get.

  Doc

  This is, (as related) a curious story.

  And, I agree, if the houseowner did not insist on job insurance, then he's an idiot. I,m not defending the witnesses, there are some whose secular interaction with the rest of the general community would be consider exemplary, and some (particularly on the fringes, of the organisation) whose work is shady. I think that probably applies to all religions.

  More - as RR tells the story, it's rather confused:

  Recently, I made a bad judgement call by giving somebody the name of a JW who specializes in road work, he destroyed the owners property and now is being sued because he did not use the premium product to fix this $3 million dollar house cement and road work, he told the owners "Go ahead and sue me, join the list because I don't have much to take". He is correct because his truck and equipment might fetch $50 on PawnStar Kings.

  So we have a person a roadwork contractor who is supposed to be associated with a JW cong. RR knows this person and gave his name to a person owning a $3,000,000 house (surely, a very nice house if it's worth that much money). This houseowner seems to have wanted a road built, presumably to connect the house to a public road.

  A question arises here. Did the houseowner consult a civil engineer to have a geophysical (soil types, water tables, etc) survey carried out and to then design a road route and detail of neccessary cutting and filling and methodology of construction? Was a specification provided detailing standards for materials etc (like concrete, blue metal, culverts) or did the owner just talk to this JW contractor, and say (verbally) make me a road from there to there? Was there a contract provided for the agreement? How was the price for the project arrived at?

  Further, I can understand a road affects access to the house, but how can a road, "destroy" the houseowners property? I understand that use of the wrong grade of concrete will materially affect the quality and longevity of the work performed, but that does come back to the importance of having (and being prepared to pay for it) a professional specification that sets out the standards of work and materials.

  The JW contractor may indeed be a shonk (as RR claims) but at this moment RR wants us to accept his opinion of Jws based on this one man's claimed failure to properly perform some work.

  Finally there's a claim that the JW carried out all this work with a $50 truck? Of course, the contractor could have hired the neccessary earthmovers, graders, compactors, etc that would be required to build a road, but that would be quite expensive, and the hire companies would surely insist on a credit examination before being willing to open an account for him.

  I have my doubts that a houseowner who can buy the land, build a $3,000,000 house etc, and yet does not have the business sense to undertake this civil engineering work at a professional level.

  There are lots of things wrong with the JWs, not least the most common complaint on this site - the family difficulties caused by shunning, but other complaints surely should be rational and not just exhibiting prejudice.
• 

  fulltimestudent

  RottenRiley: Near a fortnight ago, you posted,

  Christians were known to show love to everyone, they beat down the Pagan empire though a life devoted to loving kindness. Where do Jehovah's Witnesses stand on feeding the poor, helping slaves get out of slavery and donating funds to help Orphanges and Hospitals? Christians from various churches donate to help Africa combat AIDs, get clean water, heating stoves to help cook their food. Homes built to use minimal energy to keep the Africans safe, how does the JW get around helping the Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia?

  The more I read the acts of loving kindness and message of Hope, the more I realize the Early Christians lived for Christ and did not focus on Doomsday, why are JWs the opposite of the First-Sixth Century Christian spirit? Can you please help me understand how the Watchtower and Governing Body can read about the loving acts of kindness and behave the way they do?

  In response I asked for your sources, for what I called, a ' sweeping statement' (which you denid that it was) that the early Christians defeated the Roman Empire by 'Love.'

  And you supplied this as a reference (source):

  The book that really threw me back was writtn by a man who quit his job as a doctor and decided he wanted to develop a community based on the Early Church Fathers, born in the 1800s in Germany he wrote "They Early Christians in their own Words" by Eberhard Arnold. My Browser will not display the "clip and paste" section until I make the first post, please forgive I will be adjusting this post now. http://www.amazon.com/The-Early-Christians-Their-Words/dp/0874860954

  FTS, the Roman Philosphers and historians do mention how strange Early Christians and Early Church Fathers were, they could not grasp the concept of "Agape Love", they accused the Christians of incest, child murder and atheism (Atheism because the Christians only believed in one God, not polytheistic.) The facts speak for themselves, read about the plagues that hit various areas in the Empire and how Christians were not afriad to put their lives in the hands of God by helping plague victims, nursing them back to health. Christian concepts, the Orphange, the Hospital, Food Lines, hospitals were developed by Christians around the 7th to 8th Century to help with the elderly people being thrown in the streets left to beg, Christians Goofus and Goober with scarce resources were not afraid to share their limited means. Please give the link below a try, he is a Christian but he bases his writtings off the early works of Rome and Christians. I appreciate you asking deeper questions, sometimes I think the questions get shallow here, we need to build up a stronger community and people from both sides can bring their world-view and help each of us learn more.

  My claims are not sweeping, you will discover in various books written by the Early Church Fathers and Roman Philosophers they took issue with the Christians and Charity, Love, taking babbies left to die from exposure by parents who decided a baby was too expensive during the Roman Empires economic slump and famine. The bold acts of Early Christians even after the death of Constantine were pissing Empereor Julian off, he demanded the Roman Pagan religious priest attempt to implement charity.

  You are a Full-Time student, here's a link (I have read the early works this guy is talking about and you can check his referrences too)

  http://www.religiontoday.com/columnists/michael-craven/changing-culture-a-study-in-cultural-engagement-11639668.html

  I've now had a little time to check this book and I'll gradually demonstrate (I believe) that 'Christian love' had little to do with the triumph of Christianity.
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  fulltimestudent

  May I start with a general illustration. When the WTS provides its 'proof' that it is God's servant on earth today, do you accept that statement without question?
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  apostatethunder

  There were similar sects to them from the begining, the arrians, the catars, etc.

  But none of them promoted values comparable to what Christianity achieved in the Roman empire, abolishing slavery, raising the status of women, and educating people in mercy, charity and tolerance for other cultures.

  In Spain for example, jews and muslims lived together and enjoyed a lot of privileges for centuries until they became a threat to Christianity's survival and were expelled from the country in 1492.

  That probably saved Spain from the religion wars that asolated the rest of Europe with the Reformation that happened soon after this event.

  The spanish people also fought heroically in every village against Napoleon and his French Revolutionary ideals that costed over 6,000,000 lives to implement in other countries. Not to mention the thousands of witch hunts that took place in the protestant Europe.

  By their fruits you will know them...