Synopsis of the Jehovah's Witnesses (page 2)

gumby

I do have to say though, number 3, as stated by th wt., is a valid point

I guess Jacob and his mother got away with it when they lied to aging Abraham who really wanted esau but was tricked and lied to.

Grunt, I know where you are coming from, but I think you did take a little liberty with that point number 3. Just because you are aware of some truth does not obligate you to share that truth with just anybody. And that does not make you a liar. While there is a sick and judgemental tone to the wt publication that you quoted, the BASIC point is not necessarily false or even unworthy of consideration.

lastcall

I'm sorry, I know I'm nitpicking, but Everyone withholds truth from time to time. Information is not ALWAYS volunteered and it is not always deserved . A lie is told when someone has the purpose of deceiving. Holding truthful info back doesn't ALWAYS qualify as a lie. For instance; do you share ALL truthful info that you know with children, strangers, or even adults you know. There are occasions that call for discretion and not dishonesty. If we chuck the wt and just use the words quoted in that scripture at Matt., I think the point is clearer.

terafera

I have a hard time with 'theocratic warfare', aka withholding truths from people.

If you think about it, Jesus felt everyone was entitled to know the truth. It didnt matter who you were... he would set an example to everyone. He laid it on the table...some listened, some didnt. How can anyone put themselves so high up as to determine what others 'need' to hear?

The problem is, most Witnesses think they are the 'pearls' and non-jws are the 'swine'.

Grunt

Insight book, vol. 2, page 244: "While malicious lying is definitely condemned in the Bible, this does not mean that a person is under obligation to divulge truthful information to people who are not entitled to it. Jesus Christ counseled: "Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw your pearls before swine, that they may never trample them under their feet and turn around and rip you open." (Mt 7:6)"

No, I don't think you are nitpicking. I do think we are discussing two different things and taking what they said two different ways. Please pardon a long answer, I am always hopeing that a sincere Witness who is rethinking his or her view will be reading and I like to document the Tower's lies whenever possible.

When I was talking about the Society's view on truth, it was not in regards to with holding information but in regards to telling outright lies. It seems to me that "not divulging the truth" in their case often means telling an outright lie. Though there are many instances where they did refuse to give information, in regards to known child abusers and not making public which blood factions are acceptable and such (Biopure anyone?), that are probably as bad.

Here is just a little of what I have in my mind as the Jehovah's Witness version of not "casting their pearls before swine." They are prone to tell an outright lie because they don't think someone is ENTITLED to the truth. The examples below are the sort of thing I am talking about.

Like saying in essence "We don't punish people for taking blood" and then doing it. Or "We would never be a part of that Whore, the United Nations, like the Churches of Christendom are" and then becoming a supporter of it by being an NGO on its list. Loud buzzers should have gone off in every Witnesses head that heard about these. Brooklyn never intended that any Witness WOULD hear about it. They love the lie. They are a lie.

These are taken from other posts that have appeared on this board and others. The first one is from Kent.

By reading the court's ruling on the application filed by the Watchtower Society, it will be readily apparent to anyone familiar with Jehovah's Witnesses that Watchtower officials have grossly misrepresented crucial facts concerning Jehovah's Witnesses and the blood doctrine. Here is one key paragraph regarding children and the blood issue:

As regards the alleged involvement of children the applicant association [The Watchtower Society] submits that children cannot become members of the association but only participate, together with their parents, in the religious activities of the community. In respect of the refusal of blood transfusion, the applicant association submits that there are no religious sanctions for a Jehovah's Witness who chooses to accept blood transfusion and that, therefore, the fact that the religious doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses is against blood transfusion cannot amount to a threat to "public health". Emphasis ours
It is not unheard of for children to be baptized, and to become members of the association before reaching the age of ten, although most Jehovah's Witness children are probably in their early teens when they officially become members of the congregation, and subject to its judicial process.
As for a Witness who accepts one of the banned blood products, or a whole blood transfusion, the Watchtower's position has been quite clear for four decades:

"...the receiver of a blood transfusion must be cut off from God's people by excommunication or disfellowshiping....if in the future he persists in accepting blood transfusions or in donating blood toward the carrying out of this medical practice upon others, he shows that he has really not repented, but is deliberately opposed to God's requirements. As a rebellious opposer and unfaithful example to fellow members of the Christian congregation he must be cut off therefrom by disfellowshiping. - The Watchtower 01/15/1961 pp. 63, 64 Emphasis ours
Here is a direct link to the Commission's ruling on the Watchtower's application. Scroll down towards the end of the document and you will be able to verify this deception: http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/Hudoc1doc/hedec/sift/3641.txt

What are the responsibilities of NGOs associated with DPI?"
Since the founding days of the United Nations in San Francisco, NGOs have made valuable contributions to the international community by drawing attention to issues, suggesting ideas and programmes, disseminating information and mobilizing public opinion in support of the UN and its Specialized Agencies. Association with DPI constitutes a commitment to that effect. Associated NGOs are expected to devote a portion of their information programmes to promoting knowledge of the United Nations' principles and activities."

I hope that you also notice: " …mobilizing public opinion in support of the
UN and its Specializes Agencies.."!

There you'll find :
Legend:

DPI: Organization associated with the Department of Public Information.

E/D: Organization associated with the Department of Public Information and the Economic and Social Council.

UNA: United Nations Associations.

NGOs listed by region NGOs listed alphabetically NGOs listed by subject

Take a look , to get some of the names, from the letter V to the letter W:

http://www.un.org/MoreInfo/ngolink/ngodir/NGODirAlph/alphabet.htm)

"…..VAKA - PEACE MOUVEMENT

VERBAND DER AKADEMIKERINNEN OSTERREICHS (VAO) VERENIGING VOOR DE VERENIGDE NATIES

VERIFICATION TECHNOLOGY INFORMATION CENTRE

VETERANS AGAINST NUCLEAR ARMS

VETERANS FOR PEACE INC VIETNAM VETERANS OF AMERICA FOUNDATION VIRGINIA GILDERSLEEVE INTERNATIONAL FUND FOR UNIVERSITY WOMEN

WAINWRIGHT HOUSE

WAR & PEACE FOUNDATION

WAR RESISTERS INTERNATIONAL

WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF NEW YORK

WATER ENVIRONMENT FEDERATION

How is it possible to reconcile the WTBS position as an NGO with the
United Nations Organisation and these printed statements, from the
WTBS concerning the U.N.Organization???

*** re 241-2 33 Judging the Infamous Harlot ***(published in 1988)

17 In what way is this symbolic wild beast full of blasphemous names?

In that men have set up this multinational idol as a substitute for God’s Kingdom—to accomplish what God says his Kingdom alone can accomplish. (Daniel 2:44; Matthew 12:18, 21)

What is remarkable about John’s vision, though, is that Babylon the Great is riding the scarlet-colored wild beast. True to the prophecy, Babylonish religion, particularly in Christendom, has linked itself with the League of Nations and its successor. "

rmayer32

Great points. You hit the nail right on the head with that one.

-Rick

lastcall

Thanks. I'm clear now.

waiting

Hiya Grump!

Fine post - I'm just leaving work now, so don't have much time. I actually worked today.

The closed-mindedness, fanatical approach to The Truth is awesome in some jw's. I just received an e-mail from a young family member of our family. In essence, he left the org, many years ago, married, now with a beautiful family.

He sent his mother a video of his little boy (collage of events) with some of it xmas or birthday. His mother was so upset at the demonism of some it, she couldn't watch it - and the father wrote the son privately explaining why. Of course, he didn't write the worldly wife - as she might not understand how her little 2 yr old was doing demon practices along with his parents.

I understand how his mother felt - I most likely would have felt the same way a couple of years past. But Jehovah's Witnesses slowly suck the life from a family, from individuals - until a lonely shell is left. At least, a good proportion of of them.

If the Jehovah's Witness bangs against the shell too hard, being brittle, it might crack - or worse - shatter, as there's nothing inside anymore. At least, I think that's a private terror some jw's have - "this is it."

What a sad place we found ourselves.

waiting

Synopsis of the Jehovah's Witnesses

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