Just wanting clarification on the RBC

by joe134cd 20 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  joe134cd

  I have been reading threads about How the RBC operates, so I sort of have a fair idea of what the answers will be. But I would like to have a more direct answer to my questions.

  Where do the orders come from that a hall is in need of a remodel, or a new one to be built.

  Can the elders refuse a remodel or quickly built.

  Out side contractors are only allowed with RBC approval. What are the consequences if say a KH needed a new roof, and secular contractor was hired.

  Is it a case that orders a given that a hall needs a remodel, and that the RBC will have total control, and look out for who ever gets in the way, and elders just have to simply comply.

  This is the question I most want answered. So the congregation is given a cost by the RBC, of which there is no price break down, no receipts given or justification for the costings. The congregation is just forced to have a remodel, this is what it will cost, you can't look anywhere else to get the materials or work done. So pay up, or else.

  Dose anybody have a rough idea (as a %) of how much money they are making. I am lead to believe that the prices are heavily inflated.

  Just as a side point to the above. When they were building an assembly hall in this country. The guy who had oversight of the project was living in one of the houses, and the society the cheeky buggars were charging him full commercial rent for the place. And the guy was working for free. Unbelievable.
• 

  88JM

  Can the elders refuse a remodel or quickly built?

  I seem to recall a thread on here with a story about a local body of elders pushing back against the C.O. who was suggesting a rebuild? I don't mean like Menlo Park, but a similar kind of thing.

  EDIT: Not the one, but good thread here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/50707/1/Remodeling-the-Kingdom-Hall
• 

  The Searcher

  I was told first-hand by one our elders that when the two RBC brothers from the Branch Office turned up, they looked like a couple of Mafiosi, dressed in their long black coats. Then he said they started acting like Mafiosi, telling the BoE exactly how things would be done by the cong publishers first - only THEN would the RBC workers come and do anything. He said they were very aggressive in their speech when talking about costs.

  As it was a major INSURANCE job, I questioned why WE had to do so much work, and suggested we should in future insure through a private insurance company, not through the Org!

  No BoE who wants to keep their elevated position would DARE to go against the RBC's "recommendations". It would be viewed as "brazen conduct" by not co-operating with "God's Spirit - directed Organization". North Korean mentality would kick in!
• 

  konceptual99

  In principle the elders can do what they like as the congregation (in the UK at least) is a seperate legal entity. In the UK this takes the form of each congregation being a charity with a board of trustees made up of the local body of elders. The building and funds are under the control of the trustees.

  The reality is of course different. Although congregations can employ independent contractors this is discourged both through pressure from the CO and by the removal of any financial support. So the CO will ask the body why they are not working through the RBC, why they are not following theocratic direction etc. The WTS will not support them with any interest free loans. This of course breeds disunity in the BoE where any ones questioning the party line get shouted down. It has to be a strong BoE that proceeds with no RBC support.

  Bear in mind this is the case for even trivial works such as new fences or resurfacing. The Kingdom Hall Operating Committee are meant to refer everything for consideration by the RBC.

  I am not sure about the driving force for remodels and new halls. My gut feel is that most of the drive to do this comes from the local elders since everyone wants a nice hall. I don't think there is much prompting needed.

  The RBC involvement in remodels and new halls is pretty much guarenteed. Few BoEs would have the collective bollocks to go it alone. The fallout would be massive. I don't even think that elders would think of doing it. The RBC machine for the quickly built method is well oiled and compelling. Land purchase, planning, design, procurement etc. are all taken care of. Few congregations have the skill set or time to manage this. The major factor as well is money. Few cogregations can afford to build or remode without WTS support in the form of a loan. No RBC - no loan.

  In terms of value for money then this is a mixed bag. All the labour and professional services are being done for free but there is no doubt that some of the materials do not offer best value for money. The procurement process is nowhere near as transparent or as open as it should be to ensure that the congregation donars are getting the VFM they deserve. Many of the suppliers are JW owned businesses who are making a profit out of each RBC operation. There are few, if any, reviews of contracts or retenders. There are of course benefits using single suppliers in terms of economies of scale and common process but it's not for the local congregation.

  I have no idea what the margins are and, on balance, I don't think it's a massive scam other than the non-existent procurement process. I think the concept of the RBC is not a bad one in principle given the structure and aims of the WTS and it's congregations. What I do think stinks is that the people with the least say are the ones paying for it - namely the congregation publishers put under pressure to donate as much as possible.
• 

  stillin

  True words, Searcher. The CO comes around and does a visual inspection. Shabbiness is not tolerated. The RBC is always busy but you just have to get in line. Our KHn needed a roof, the RBC brother finally came and said "yup, needs a roof." So now we wait for the RBC-approved brother to come and measure, which of course we had already done, it's not rocket science. Actually, we had measured and shopped for the materials, so we already had a pretty good idea... Well, the RBC buys from certain vendors in order to get a better tier in all of their prices. But when we pointed out that we had found a considerably better price, it was just too bad. You want RBC help, you play by their rules, which we did.

  Wouldn't want to rock the theocracy's boat. But what a bunch of jerks.
• 

  TheOldHippie

  Different countries, different systems, it seems. Here, all is bought locally based on best prices/terms/quality etc., just ordinary procedures. Local purchases for showing that one is part of the community and not some strangers bringing in everything needed from somewhere else. So much more transparent here.
• 

  James Jackson

  1) In the States, the RBC does an annual inspection of the KH. If you are paying on a loan from the Society, according to the terms of the loan, you must comply with the RBC.

  2) The Society loan are 0% on the principle.

  3) The RBC makes purchases from Home Depot, which gives them a Contractor's price of 10% off retail.

  4) However, the RBC does charge the local congregation a 25% mark up on all materials; for the reason that the RBC uses these extra funds to purchase equipment, trailers, tools, etc.
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  Hecce

  Agree with the initial questioner and can say by personal experience that the RBC can do whatever and whenever they want . Is a maffia, Elders have to play by their rules or else.

  No invoices, receipts, financial proposals, nothing, just work and pay.

  I have the feeling that the Congregations are being charged high commercial prices even with the brothers doing free labor.
• 

  flipper

  Joe- Indeed this is a Mafia like organization and just one look at what happened to the elders in the Menlo Park, California congregation explains what happens when they REFUSE to cooperate with Circuit Overseers who are sent by the WT Society to inspect Kingdom Halls and pressure elders to use the RBC remodel program- or else. Menlo park elders got deleted as elders and DFed because they tried to not put a burden on their congregation publishers.

  The " burden " part doesn't matter to the WT Society- what matter to WT leaders is having the title on the Kindom Hall land and buildings so they can continue receiving payments from poor JW's to keep the WT organization shined, polished, wealthy, and " progressing ". It's a scam of the most immoral nature
• 

  Narcissistic Supply

  When you look at some fast growing food franchises that suddenly get cut in half or go out of business.....For some of them the reason is the high cost of improvements that some pencil pusher manager decides that everyone has to do. The one that comes to mind is "Quiznos" ....they grew like gang busters....and suddenly stopped growing....and the reason was the high cost of improvements that the FRANCHISOR was requiring.....

  It sucks to be a FRANCHISEE.