Reasonable Doubt & Justice

by cha ching 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  cha ching

  Would it be fair for Jehovah God to execute 7 billion people, when there is “reasonable doubt” about the teachings of JW’s?

  In a murder trial, you are instructed not to condemn someone to death, if there is “reasonable doubt”?

  What if you cannot believe in “overlapping generations”?

  Will you be condemned to death?

  70 C.E – 33 C.E. = 37 years“Within this generation”

  “Searcher” posted: Job 42:16 “ 16 And Job continued living after this a hundred and forty years and came to see his sons and his grandsons— four generations . (144 divided by 4 = 36 years)

  Would a loving parent kill their child if they just could not wrap their head around this teaching?

  What doctrines/ teachings/ new light of JW’s leave you with “reasonable doubt”?
• 

  Bobcat

  Cha Ching:

  The "justice" you are referring to is the Watchtower's viewpoint. For an alternative view based on Matthew 25:31-46, Revelation 3:10 and Revelation 11:18 see here, and here, and here respectively.

  Matthew 25:31-46 has people of the nations, outside of the Christian community (Christ's "brothers" & "these least ones") being divided off for either life or execution.

  Revelation 3:10 also refers to those outside of the Christian community (or at least to those not 'keeping the word of [Jesus'] endurance') as being tested. Presumably such a 'test' would allow for some to pass.

  Revelation 11:18 refers to the "holy ones," a standard designator in the Bible for God's people, as well as "those fearing your name," to be 'rewarded' when God "brings to ruin those ruining the earth."

  Take Care

  Edited to add:

  • Zechariah 14:16 also refers to ". . .everyone who is left remaining out of all the nations that are coming against Jerusalem. . .," in a context similar to the war against the nations portrayed in Revelation. In the context of the chapter (Zech. 14), the nations are different from God's people who are described in terms of being inhabitants of Jerusalem. Thus, those "left remaining out of all the nations that are coming against Jerusalem" are not likely to be referring to people who are already servants of God.
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  DesirousOfChange

  Evidently (TM) , you're doing some independent thinking.

  Clearly (TM) , you are a good example of why this is dangerous and why the F&DS tells us NOT to do this.

  Good luck.

  Doc
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  cha ching

  Dear Bobcat,

  I must run, heading off to work, just got a chance to peek at your links, looks interesting.

  Yep, the WTBTS is adept at making excuses, still.... evidence is evidence... to the thinkingmind, right?
• 

  Bobcat

  DOC:

  Evidently (TM) , you're doing some independent thinking.

  • Indeed I is! Bes'typa thinkin' there are. E.G., see here.

  I shoulda added for Cha Ching:

  • I agree with the sentiments expressed. It would hardly be just to be expected to believe teachings that can be best described as exploitative.

  Take Care

  (By the way, the 'Paragraph Indent' button on the toolbar does not appear to work. This is why I used the 'Bullet Insert' button. I find indenting to be an effective way of laying out thoughts. Its probably from my public talk days.)
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  Simon

  Never mind the fact that the overwhelming majority of people die without ever hearing their "message". In fact, there simply isn't enough time for anyone to research enough religions to chose the one correct one (not that there is one, but that's their mantra).

  God is the utimate genocidal maniac.
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  LongHairGal

  Simon:

  Not only that. A person only has just so many years of life. What happens if they find a dead-end and are stuck there for years? How many years do they have to start over and over again (hypothetically and that is assuming they even have the energy or desire to do so or live in a free country where they are able to do so).

  The whole thing is very unfair.
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  adamah

  Unlike 'flawed' man-made justice, the Bible presumes that ALL men are born guilty and hence have already been convicted and sentenced to a death penalty, and in need of a stay of execution from Jesus. So unlike man-made courts, there is no presumption of innocence until AFTER the defendent has been proven guilty, AFTER any incriminating evidence has been presented to connect the defendent to the crime (sin) they've allegedly committed.

  Of course, the whole set-up is assymetrical (not coincidently), since believers are expected to accept the entire scenario based on faith, alone: they're expected to believe in God without any evidence being presented to support the belief (other than appeals to tradition, AKA "that's just the way it's always been done").

  Thus Xianity is a skeptic's worst nightmare, a living Hell, since Xianity DEMANDS an evidence-free existence built on presuppositions alone, spending one's entire life believing in 'things' that are detached from the need for any supportive evidence whatsoever.

  Adam
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  cha ching

  Thanks for all the interesting comments, our brains are all so different, and "don't we just looooove" that fact!

  • Bobcat: Yes, the WT has it's own type of justice... and "don't we just HATE that!" I have started to check out your links, but need a bit more time. Thx for the links. Luv those bullets!
  • Simon & LongHaired Gal...that is pretty sad indeed... to expect people born on an island far, far away to somehow "figure it all out," is just wrong. No loving parent would kill their child just because of their ignorance.
  • DOC: "Independent thinking"??? Why do I love those words?
  • Bobcat: I really like those links to the independent thinking, I found one that is pretty interesting, by biblthumper of "__ ministries" He was a 5th generation JW, and he speaks to JW's who realize "something just isn't right in the Org, but can't quite put their finger on it.'

  He mentioned something that has rung true with me.: If Paul, an apostle... "above" the GB, can say "If I or an angel out of heaven tell you something other than the good news" go ahead and question it, then why can't WE question the GB?

  • Adamah: Thx, you make my point. If you were to ask a witness if it were fair to sentence someone to death if you have "reasonable doubt," they would agree with you, and say "no." From their viewpoint, Christ's sacrifice covers over the "all are evil and deserve to die from birth" [inherited sin] mentality.
  • They think that if you do good to Christ's brothers, the GB, you are doing good to Christ, and will get everlasting life
  • . However, my point was to help someone come to the conclusion that "If killing a person without evidence is shocking to you, then wouldn't you find it shocking for Christ to kill you because you see the flaws in the .. "the overlapping generation teaching" ?... You have "reasonable doubt"
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  smiddy

  cha -ching your OP correctly identifies the approximate length of a generation that jesus referred to.Mt.24:34 ( Thats the first "witness")

  Mt.1;17 provides the second ("witness") "All the generations then,from Abraham until David were fourteen generations,and from David until the deportation to Babylon fourteen generations,and from the deportation to babylon until the Christ fourteen generations."

  That is a total of 42generations , the WTB&TS say Abraham was born 2018 BC , they also say jesus was born about 2 BC.

  Abrahams birth 2018 BC divided by 42 generations until jesus birth 2 BC equals 43 years . a good ball park figure

  ( A third witness ) Any reputable dictionary whether secular or biblical , defines a generation as approximately 50 years or so , give or take a FEW years .

  The same is true of Biblical Encyclopeadias , the consensus is a generation is about 40-60 years .

  Doesnt the bible say words to the effect that a matter is established by the mouth of two witnesses ?

  Here we have three witnesses , two from the bible itself saying that a generation is no more than 60 years at most .

  P.S. All scriptures cited are from the NWT.

  smiddy