Are you a coward?

by Bugbear 11 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Bugbear
    Bugbear

    Active JW:s spending their time with the preaching work, are often aware of that their message does not comply with simple scientific facts. They know that evolution has taken place, that the timetable of the bible is not correct, and that most of the bibles content, are tales, that the original text has been rewritten, and rewritten, and misunderstood, and rewritten (except for a fragment P54, which is from 300 a.c.) Still they go out preaching, trying to find possible converts to the teaching of the GB.

    Often they try to do as little as possible, one or two hours per month, talking to their children, or old parents. This to satisfy the elder who is responsible for the report list to the society.

    But are these people not responsible for promulgate a lie . Are they not responsible for dragging people into a cult which could be very harmful, for all these proselytes and to their families?

    Some of them can excuse themselves, by saying I did as little as possible, not to be shunned or destroy my family. Or maybe some of us can say I was loyal to my family and friends and in fact I believed a bit of it and I thought that maybe this was what god expected from me.

    But when are you responsible to stand up and say loudly “The king is naked”. Many of the turnkeys in Nazi concentration camps, or is Stalins archipelagos, or I Maos prison, excused themselves with the word :I only did what I was ordered to do….

    Where is the pivot point, when you cannot be excused personally, when are you just a coward, trying to be social with human fellows that don’t dare tell them the TTATT.

    Bugbear

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    But when are you responsible to stand up and say loudly “The king is naked”. Many of the turnkeys in Nazi concentration camps, or is Stalins archipelagos, or I Maos prison, excused themselves with the word :I only did what I was ordered to do….- bugbear

    Good point the Holocaust happened because good men did nothing. They were scared. Yes I think many JWs are too scared to say the King is naked. I feel for those that are trapped, and scared to leave.

    Sam xx

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    You get the judgemenatalism from the inside because you are not 'doing enough' and are therefore spiritually weak. You get the judgementalism from the outside because you are doing too much and should 'man up', tell everyone what you really think and risk losing every single person you have ever loved.

    Guess what? I feel angry. Angry at them and angry at people like you. Then to put us on the same level as Nazis?!! For your information, I've not 'dragged anyone into this cult', in fact I'm trying to get my family to see it for what it is and it's a long drawn out process. I'm not leaving without them and I don't see this as being cowardly!!

    Right now after your comments I feel just like my username... thanks for that.

  • Bugbear
    Bugbear

    Tornapart!

    I am very sorry if I have insulted you or made you feel bad. Can you think that the question I have brought up very well could be about my own situation? I faded away slowly for 10 years. This trying not to split my family. I tried to be “as nice” to everyone to please the congregation, the elders, my wife, my children and was “tornapart”, because I knew I wasn’t doing the right thing to anyone. I spent month in therapy (CBT), just to find out my own reason why I had to please everyone. I took classes in University to ensure that I was not wrong about what I knew. I spent more than 10 years as an inactive JW. Every one of “the friends” in the cong. wondered why. I was a coward, till one day when all my children was safe out of the cong. and my wife asked me to say a prayer at a family reunion. I refused and said that I am not any longer going to spiritually rape, my family or any person coming to our dinner table. (This is what it is..spiritual rape)

    My wife of course cried (she is still in), and understood, that I no longer was in the truth. She of course must tell the elders about the situation. And since then my life has improved, I have got new friends, no more visits from sheeparding JC,s CO,s or elders. I am free. Of course I have not convinced my wife with what is wrong with the society. She of course is free to believe what she wants to believe. But she has also been forbidden to speak “spiritual” matters with me. So it is quite mute at home nowadays.

    Now think if I had the courage to do all that 10 years earlier? I could have saved whole my family 10 years of suffering, not knowing what I though. I could have supporting my children all the suffering they have felt by leaving the cong. and both their parents. I have really been a coward and induced much suffering and danger my children’s future by not saying what is right and what is wrong.

    I am the Nazi turnkey, not you tornapart

    Bugbear

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    Wow Bugbear you have some regrets. We are all different and exiting is personal, but very difficult which ever path we choose. The slow exit or the big dramatic puff of smoke.

    We are all scared, it's scary for us all.

    Tornapart, please do not feel upset. I do not think you are cowardly at all. You have bravely supported me through difficult times. Keep doing what you are doing if it works. Thank you Sam xx

  • tornapart
    tornapart

    Sorry Bugbear! And thanks for that, I think I am just very touchy about this subject and perhaps over sensitive. It is an extremely hard situation to be in and I would so love to be free of it all. My children are all grown and of course are all 'in'. Hubby is an elder.

    It's been two years for me so far and at least my immediate family all know how I feel. They still expect me to go to meetings and FS though. I would love to just give it all up! It would be so freeing. They see the meetings as spiritual refreshment. I see them as stress inducing and nauseating.

    At the moment I'm reading as much as I can, personal experiences of those trapped inside fundamentalist religions and their escape. Self help books. Inspirational books. Just to get some positivity and encouragement. At the moment I'm reading the book Boundaries. To try and see what I can say/do to help me with the fading and let others know what to expect of me and what I will/will not allow.

    I'm glad you finally got free! And I hope it doesn't take me 10 years! though I'm not holding my breath...

  • KateWild
    KateWild

    I see them as stress inducing and nauseating.-tornapart

    So true, it's awful. I have only missed two meetings and my loved ones are hounding me to go, and say that I will get RI'd soon. I tell them this is how meetings make me feel. One even said she has changed since she was last in, and noe she is RI'd she gets my perspective, and she showed me some things that JWs did and said that made her feel nauseous.

    I think she is in two minds whether or not getting RI'd was the right thing to do. I hope she comes out soon.

    I hope you can reach your kids, I don't think I would have left if my daughter hadn't left with me. Sam xx

  • Bugbear
    Bugbear

    Yes, going to the meetings, listening to all the "frogs" jumping out of the speachers mouth was very stressing. I did get a very high bloodpreasure every time meeting time was on. In fact with my hearth conditions background I think that this high bloodpreasure, might have given a contribution to five hartstrokes I have had.

    Bugbear

  • FadeToBlack
    FadeToBlack

    I''m with you both (Bugbear and Tornapart). I simply can't go to another meeting. Haven't been in several months now. Just wished I had 'manned-up' many years ago. Thankfully, I have no family in 'except' my wife.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Yup, I agree with the OP (at least in the general principle). The sad fact is, most people are easily-manipulated by "the group" and "authority figures", which is exactly what psychologist Stanley Milgram's experiment showed (as discussed in this article on my blog on compliance with authority figures).

    People need to accept personal responsibility and face up to the harm they caused others, for whatever reason; if they DON'T, they'll unlikely to be able to figure out why they joined a high-control group, in the first place. If someone doesn't conduct a personal assessment post-JW and look at themselves long and hard in the mirror, they're likely only going to join another, instead of learn from the experience and make themselves less vulnerable to control by others.

    Adam

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