Are some JWs justified in staying in the org?

by greendawn 31 Replies latest jw experiences

  • greendawn

    Most of us left the organisation because we could no longer stand one or other aspect of it, perhaps its very dictatorial administration, the disappointment due to the false promises and vain hopes raised by its leadership, disagreement with the blood ban or pedophile and shunning policies, the feel one gets that this is a business and not a religious organisation manipulating its members to its own profit etc etc

    These are of course valid reasons for rejecting this religion and refusing to identify with it but do the JWs who stay in have a valid argument for rejecting leaving the org? They will say: "OK our religion, our society has its flaws but what human society doesn't? And on balance we are better off staying here than joining any other human society at least we have a more spiritual and safe environment and more stable marriages whereas the world is a much more chaotic place"

    And I must admit that this is a valid argument, their society is in general more disciplined, ordered and safe! And it is understandable that they will feel we are being unfair to them by denying the obvious, refusing to acknowledge their good work and advising them to leave the JW organisation. The ex JWs have valid arguments for leaving but those that stay in and continue to support the old org also have valid arguments for staying. Each one his own depending on individual circumstances some are better off leaving and others are better off staying and each side should understand the other. Others stay in though they no longer believe its often bizarre doctrines to try and improve things from within.

    All the problems are being caused by a bad and generally useless leadership had they been more reasonable and undertaken substantial reforms most members that left would have stayed in. And I know many JWs who are perfectly happy being there many see it as a club offering good company and don't mind the small price they have to pay for it, a few hours for preaching and attending meetings. Those that wish to leave should be helped to leave those who really wish to stay should be encouraged to stay.

    The whole issue will be settled when a new entity arrives that will be acceptable to both JWs and many ex JWs: the JW religion minus a large number of bizarre beliefs eg the blood ban, the Governing Body, the two classes of members and also the total hostility towards the rest of the world, the pressure to preach, the extreme emphasis on works, the end of times travesty etc. But that's another topic (thread).

    PS: I don't know why the formatting came out like that after posting.

  • cofty

    the small price they have to pay for it, a few hours for preaching and attending meetings

    The price is far greater than that.

    Even pretending to submit to a thought control regime is too high a price.

  • greendawn

    Hi Cofty, I agree with you and one of the main reasons I and many others left was the devious mental manipulations. However for many JWs this is something they don't care about and do not seem to have any ill effects from it they just seem to take in their stride all the utter nonsense that comes from the top. It is a matter of perspective. They couldn't care less if the FDS and his promises are fake or if the annointed are an imaginary class or if the org can save someone etc etc as long as they have a good time in the JWs. They value more the practical benefits they derive, others value more rejecting a dishonest leadership.

  • cofty

    At the very least a JW has to assent to the idea that there is a god who is going to destroy millions.

    You cannot avoid an "us-and-them" mentality about "wordly" people.

    You can't hold that jaded view of humanity and not be profoundly damaged goods.

  • steve2

    Oh yes indeed sir: Some people absolutely need to be told how to live their life; they are aimless and adrift without the organization - it is these sorts of dullards who would do well to stay very near the Watchtower feeding fountain. And if lying out in the midday sun, they will also need an egg-timer to tell them when to turn over and evenly tan the other side without burning.

    All others who have active brains will already have an exit plan - even if their immediate circumstances don't allow it just yet.

  • adamah

    OP, your argument boils down to an attempt to find benefit in doing things, AKA a teleological argument, looking for practical benefits to staying in.

    There are plenty of post-hoc rationalizations (AKA excuses) one can use to justify staying in, but at the end of the day, the ONLY reason that should matter is the most obvious: because it is true. So, the question each individual needs to ask themselves is whether they believe it is "the Truth" or not?

    If not, they why jump through the hoops, submit to the control, and potentially lose your (or your loved ones') life, eg due to a flawed blood policy?

    Although not blatantly obvious from any external signs (unlike the picture below, showing teens getting caught up in a frenzy over the Beatles, since JWs are more obviously sedate, and hence like a 'quiet riot'), I view the JWs and other such groups as experiencing a mild form of shared psychosis (folie à plusieurs, "madness of many"), where all the participants are responsible for contributing and reinforcing the delusions of all the other participants (even if only by their mute presence at meetings).

    Like other groups prone to mass hysteria, the JWs often reinforce the irrational dysfunctional thinking of other members of the group, and hence each shares in the blame for reinforcing the dynamic of the others. They are actually creating a massive emotional hystersis loop for their shared delusional beliefs, a cycle that occasionally results in 'feedback' that causes harm and/or death to themselves and their family members.

    As such, each individual bears a portion of the collective responsibility of the group, and only each individual can decide for themselves not to run with the herd during a 'faith stampede'.


  • NewYork44M

    This is an excellent question. I do not ever attempt to extricate someone from the organization for the reasons you discuss.

    Freedom is wonderful, but it is a hell of a lot of work. Connecting with a cult that gives easy answers is, for lack of better words.... easy.

    I am willing to put in the work and hope, although there are no guarantees, that the effort is worth it. I know that some really don't want to exert the effort. I am not critical, it just is what it is.

    Since we connect the organization with the "borg." Ponder the Star Trek episode of the freed borg in total chaos. This episode should be required viewing for the do-gooders that think they have all the answers. I don't want that responsibility. As I tell everyone, "I got my own stinkin problems." I have neither the time nor energy to fix your problems.

  • Finkelstein

    The WTS tells people why they should be justified and thankful being a faithfully devoted

    member to their organization, but thats a part of the inherent corruption of this organization.

    The problem with long term people who've been indoctrinated into this religion is that they have been

    strenuously indoctrinated to do just that.

    They simply loose the ability to think outside of the Watchtower programing in how to critically think for

    themselves on matters.

    Thats why many people who abruptly leave the JW organization fail and go into a state of personal abuse and problems.

  • anonymouz

    It becomes a matter of conscience based on personal determination of the Bethel magnitude of sin. I do not know how experienced, or supposedly scipturally experienced JWs, in belief the org is God's express property, think God will accpet a "library card" excuse for a Bethel UN NGO night of escort services to the most intimtate of places, supposedly, to God.

    A truly discerning Christian would understand Matt24:15 is now present right at Bethel. And to make matters worse, Bethel did that UN NGO thingy secretly and still maintains secrecy so most JWs have never been officially informed of the UN NGO affair or that the GB is main organ of it's infection.

    And worse still, unlike JWs of 1919 and 1945 expunding 2 UN placements as prophecy, the modern Bethel subversion center instead conceals King North as 8th King in Dan11:30-45, and instead COVERS UP the 3rd (1990) and 4th (future) UN placements in that required continual (Dan11:36) sequence, as if a defunct USSR is "king north".

    For a JW actually claiming to be Christian, it is impossible to then share in (Zech3:3) these Bethel apostasy sins; (2Thess2:3; Dan11:32a);


    But as we know, many JWs are plainly in no awareness of the actual magnitude of the current Bethel apostasy, if they knew it was apostasy maybe they would flee as Jesus commanded.

    But too, as we know, JWs are hypnotized with therapeutic minutia, over and over, as if it is 1940 in JWland, and that mrely maintains the illusion the 12 apostles are in the GB, and not Satan and the demons instead; (2Cor11:13-15).

    Thus JW personal awareness dictates whether they would remain or not. In full awareness of the demonic nature of Bethel's subversion, one would flee automatically. In the meantime the ship is sinking, and the GB will attempt to drag as many down with them "at that time" (WT 11/15/13, pg.20, par. 17, #3), and that is why the JW organizational "ark of salvation", is now transformed into actually a JW spider web that has potential of also being a death trap in certain developments, obbviously planned, obviously known in that **"at that time" statement Bethel slips out as if they know most definitely:

    The Watchtower 11/15/2013 statement:

    “”Elders who are reading this article can draw some useful conclusions from the account we have just considered:…

    (3) **At that time, the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not. “”


    Thus in my opinion, there is no good reason to remain in an obviously corrupted and dangerous organization. Others ave to put the big picture together for themselves in time.

  • anonymouz

    And true, as you said in another way, a purification must also occur for JW xJW and nonJW accessibility easily to undeserved kindness reality.

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