The true meaning on how light and darkness/day and night are created BEFORE the sun and moon....

by EndofMysteries 15 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • EndofMysteries
  • EndofMysteries

    You just clicked on the chapter of which old testament book you want to see then a PDF will pop up. You see the hebrew, then the hebrew to english translation on the bottom, then the right column is normally how it would be presented in a bible.

    The bottom translation is the closest to go on. Even that part is not fully fool proof, for example, you'll see that adm (directly under the hebrew) is then translated into either Adam or man. It's the same word. The translator is then guessing if it's talking about the name adam or just man in general. That example alone can get interesting, for example the prophecies about the "son of man", could hypothetically be translated , "son of adam". Then you have scriptures I think talking about how Jesus was slain in the founding of the world, Rev 13:8. Could son of man actually be son of adam, abel, who was the first one slain?

    The interlinear is definitely a big step closer to seeing the true message of the bible, but there are small things like that still left for interpretation if one doesn't learn hebrew.

  • adamah

    EoM said- I looked it up a bit and they are close to identical. The israelite story also has the male and female. for example in a hebrew interlinear, the earth is female as well and the sky is male. Even in nature that makes sense, it's a little gross to think of it but I believe some civilizations believed that earth / dirt was female and sky was male and rain was like semen. the rain penetrates the seed in the female ground and the seed grows.

    Yup, there's too many similarities to think it's coincidental or accidental, and you'll notice how in Genesis the Earth, the ground (adamah, my user name, selected for a reason) is the source of creation of animals and humans in Genesis 2 (which was written by the Yahwist); compare to myths of other cultures where the Earth is personified as a female (eg Gaia from the Greeks, or mother Earth).

    Vestiges of the living mother Earth are still seen in the Bible eg when the ground opens her mouth to receive the blood of Abel, and God curses NOT Cain, but curses the ground not to be productive for Cain for the crime. The ground became the object of cursing, so it no longer produces for humans as it did for Adam (although note it was only less-productive for Adam, not COMPLETELY UNPRODUCTIVE, as it was for Cain).

    Noah secures a promise from God never to curse the Earth on account of sins of man, by delegating Divine authority to punish bloodshed, and humans are allowed to eat animals PROVIDED the blood is spilled on the ground (nourishing adamah).

    Most modern readers COMPLETELY miss the subtle role of the ground in Genesis, since we KNOW the Earth is inanimate, and have long ago given up thinking of the ground as playing a role as an animate character. Jewish thought was a step in that direction, a transition from earlier myths of other cultures, and is thus akin to the similar move towards monotheism in Hebraic thought.

    EoM said- also in the bible, does it not say, 'let US create man'? Also in the NT, Jesus is said to have been with God 'in the beginning'.

    Yeah, Elohim is a plural word, and reflects the belief of Judaism that a Divine Council existed in Heaven (as seen in Job, with Satan as a member of the Elohim).

    Michael Heiser is a bit of a nut so read with a grain of salt (!), but he has written extensively on 'Elohim' which pretty much aligns with what I've read elsewhere:

    It's interesting you pointed that out, but even more interesting that the hebrew scriptures still have a male/female part. In Jeremiah the Israelites are said to be worshipping the "queen of the heavens". Wisdom is given a 'female' attribute in the scriptures and is said to have been God's masterworker I think?

    For further reading, I'd say look into books about Asherah, eg Bill Devers wrote "Did God Have a Wife?". Archaeologists find literally hundreds of thousands of mini-statuettes of Asherah in archaeological digs throughout Israel, indicating that a belief in a wife of Jehovah was very common in Jewish folk religion, and likely was eliminated and discouraged after post-exilic reforms attempted to kill off Jehovah's wife (!).

    EoM said- Even if the babylon writings are older, it wouldn't make it wrong if there was any truth to them whether from the israel or babylonian side of it.

    It's not about what's wrong or right, but what is most likely to be reality. I don't approach it from the perspective of a believer, which is necessary in order to minimize one's wants and desires to influence. Reality doesn't care what you or I WANT it to be: it is what it is....

    EoM said- another thing, I know the JW's always put babylon as being pure evil and the bad guys, but repeatedly in the bible, it shows God used Babylon and many times the kings of babylon had much respect for the God of Israel. If all of that is true, then there is a chance the babylon teachings of the creation were adopted or learned from the israelites. It could go either way, but since there are many things in the old testament hinting towards more to the story then is widely understood, and that the hebrew old testament also has the male and female attributes, that it might be a close copy of what Israel believed and why is says "us" in genesis for the creation.

    You DO realize the Babylonians conquered the Jews, right, and took THEM captive?

    I'd recommend you study the known history of the relationship between the conqueror and the conquered before the invasion and sacking of Jerusalem occurred, if you expect that hypothesis to carry any weight with anyone but yourself. The Babylonian Enuma Elish and other Akkadian creation sources PRE-DATE the Priestly source's Genesis creation narrative (Genesis 1) by 700 yrs (!), which is considered as a post-exilic composition, added circa 500 BCE under Persian Rule. Remember, the Yahwist writings in Genesis 2 is older, likely dating to 9th cent BCE (based on textual analysis of the word use, language and syntax compared to other known writings in ancient Hebrew, which evolved as ALL languages do).

    You might want to look into the "Persian Emperial Authorization Theory", which offers an enticing and widely-accepted explanation of how the Torah came to be compiled, buying the Jews their liberation from captivity in Babylon, as long as they could submit a book of legal code to their overlords, the Persians (ruled by Cyrus the Great, who also was regarded in the Tanakh as "the Messiah", and widely-respected as a great leader even by the Nations he conquered).


  • EndofMysteries

    Adamah - I agree with all you have stated in your last post. I have learned of those things in my research as well. About YHWH and his Asherah. The divine counsil is in the bible as well, for example Ps 82 is a whole chapter on it.

    I do know that Babylon conquered the jews. I was saying that throughout the bible, them being conquered was punishment. In the book of Daniel, the king of babylon is told by God that he is given rulership over man, even his own kingdom and babylon, was due to God. Remember after he says he himself created and made it powerful he becomes as a beast for 7 years and then is to know that God gives power to whom he wants to give power, etc.

    I have traveled the world exploring and studying ancient cultures and ruins. I recall when looking at transcripts of ancient assyrian ruins about how that king had engraved something along the lines of how he was God's sword, the scripture, Is 19:24 where God calls egypt his people, israel his inheritance, and assyrian his sword. When seeing the similarities, the hidden ones in the scriptures, then with the beliefs and ancient ruins of those other cultures, it's a definite thing that a lot of it is tied together.

    I am not trying to believe what i 'want' to believe, or I would not have come this far.

    At this crossroads, you may have gone the path of what's in the bible matches up w/ so called pagan/false religions so it's all false. (I don't know). So far for me, seeing all of these similarities, and what the bible is really teaching, and the similarities in every culture and religion worldwide, that the 'truth' might not be what we thought, but also for the first time in history, we have the ability to put all of the pieces of the puzzle together to get the truth, and for me so far it's NOT looking like it's going to end with, "it's all BS that just coincidentally happened to be the same BS in every culture worldwide".

    Call it God, the almighty, angels, spirit creatures, aliens, anything, but so far I'm sure there has been outside life / forces involved in this world.

    O and thanks for the books and sources you mentioned, although I have already through other research learned the same things, I'll check some of those out to supplement what I've learned.

  • ozbrad

    Dear mankind this is your God speaking. Please ,please wash your hands after taking a crap it will save millions of lives. Said no god ever.

  • DS211

    Oz brad---prior to the flood they probably would have need for it...eating just plants friits and nuts from the beginning wouldve probably meant those bad bacteria werent there. And yet it increases exponentially when one eats meat or chicken, fish, but thats my speculation, as i didnt shake an unwashed noahs hand after wiping ;-)

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