What Are The Expectations...Now??

by Cold Steel 27 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    Vanderhoven: Talking about expectations...I wonder what Mormons say about previously held views.

    What, like moon men?

    Get real! It's never been a doctrine of the LDS faith. Many people thought in that day that the sun and moon were inhabited, but it takes more than the statement of one man to establish a doctrine given by revelation. It's a fact that all of our current teachings were taught by Joseph Smith in the presence of more than one person in more than one occasion. Elder Wilford Woodruff wrote volumes in his journal and is the early church's foremost authority of the beliefs and teachings of the early church. He NEVER ONCE mentioned moon men or inhabitants of the sun or moon. We also have verbatim revelations given to Smith and other prophets and they NEVER ONCE mention it, either. "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established." Our doctrine is strictly limited to the Standard Works and officially revealed and certified revelation.

    Want more?

    Moon men:

    Did Joseph Smith believe in an inhabited moon? From the historical evidence now available the answer must be: Not proven. But, all things considered, the possibility, or probability, that he did cannot reasonably be denied. For all others of that era the question seems quite insignificant, especially given contemporary beliefs. But in the case of Joseph Smith, he claimed to be a prophet. Some extremists contend that his claim demands that his knowledge in every area be superior to that of others in his era. If he believed any false notion of his day, so these critics say, his credibility must be doubted. Others, not so demanding of infallible insight in a prophet, would be more comfortable with a description of God’s revelation which allowed for the human and the divine. ...

    No original sources verifying this have been found of which I am aware. The book quotes from an 1881 journal entry, published in 1892 by Oliver B. Huntington, who claimed Joseph Smith said there were moonmen. Huntington would have been about eleven years of age at the time, if he heard this from Joseph Smith personally, or even if the idea came from someone else. In fact, indications are that he heard it secondhand at best.

    Van Hale, "How Could a Prophet Believe in Moon Men?"


    Though purified and ennobled by the influence of His Holy Spirit, these men each had his own peculiarities of manner and disposition—each with his own education or want of education—each with his own way of looking at things—each influenced differently from one another by the different experiences and disciplines of his life. Their inspiration did not involve a suspension of their natural faculties; it did not even make them free from earthly passion; it did not make them into machines—it left them men.

    Therefore we find their knowledge sometimes no higher than that of their contemporaries....

    (Rev. J. R. Dummelow, One Volume Bible Commentary, p. cxxxv).

    Videos on Book of Abraham

    Regarding the Book of Abraham, very few of our critics actually care what the Book of Abraham says. In fact, it's quite compatible with a number of Abrahamic apocrapha. If produced today, Joseph Smith would be accused of copying style and content from sources not discovered until many decades later. In 1830, he could not have copied them as they weren't yet available. I'm a huge believer in the Book of Abraham. I'm not terribly sure how Joseph did it, but I'm convinced it's of God.


  • whathappened

    Yes, my nephew who is at Bethel says it will be very soon and that we are very very deep into the last days. Spread the word!!!!

  • metatron

    In a nutshell:

    Most Witnesses I know are desperate, chronically ill and barely paying their bills. They are frightened of any possibility that The End isn't close - it's too painful to think about. Add to that the fear that their 'service' has meant nothing.

    That's what keeps it going. It has little to do with logic or hard fact.


  • anonymouz

    Well there will be a global financial meltdown. And Bethel can sell that to JWs as "the end". But it will only be the end of Bethel's finances, the overall world system will merely be globalizing a final finance and monetary system as Dan11:42-43.

    So JWs will see Bethel's end come, and go, and more years will continue to roll by, and tat is when it will get weird for JWs finally now having to actually piece together the operation as the Bethel elites will all have split with 100s of millions in WT hard assets then. (tied up in international scale litigation, recievership, bankruptcies, etc) As of now they already have in effect "split" with flowing assets in investment and monies, that are derivative device securitized WT hard assets for later, so the scammers are making out with 100s of millions even now, and will cap it off later in the actual seizure of WT properties, etc, to whatever degree that is set up for in the initial financial meltdown cycle.

    Just don't buy the Bethel delusion smoke screen that this coming collapse is the "end of the world". It is the START of the final globalization process financial basis to even make the later years of world government globalization even possible. It is not "the end", but a beginning. Then to turn the tables, you can preach to JWs to tell them what is really going on, the JW ministry will have to cease for a while in the beginning of that process.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    The GB reports that we are deep in the very Last Days of the Last days.

    And that's the problem with the last days, they last...

    and last...

    and last...

    and last...


  • Cold Steel
    Cold Steel

    There are many Christians who feel tribulations are coming in the last days. The "pre-tribbers" believe they will be "caught up" to meet Christ before the tribulation, thus getting them off the hooks. The JWs believe that the tribulations will be quick and that they will be the only ones who survive. I think one of the reasons TV shows like THE WALKING DEAD are so popular is that it touches a fear that tribulations will come and there will be no escape...no relief...and that it will be every man for himself.

    There's no Biblical evidence that Jesus will catch all the believers up to heaven before the tribulation. Only when the Lord returns will that happen. If tough times do come when there are catastrophies, what will the Governing Body be able to do? When the Romans swept down on the Jews, the apostles instructed the Christians, beforehand, to flee to Pella. Jesus had warned them to "stand in holy places," and that ordinarily would be the temple. Only in this case the temple would have been the last place anyone would want to flee to. If the GB really is God's mouthpiece, they will be able to marshall their people and provide protection for them. But...if the GB members are not who they claim to be, then there are reasons to be concerned.

    In the past, many who expected doomsday frittered their money away, decided not to go to college, foolishly bought boats and went on lavish vacations thinking the end was near. And it hasn't just been JWs. In fact, JWs, many of them, throw away opportunities to spend more time preaching. That's commendable if their motivations are pure, but if they do it for their own selfish reasons, not so much.

    After the 1975 debacle, I'd think the leaders would pull back a little.

    If you asked most people at a typical Kingdom Hall, would you expect them to predict the end in 30 years, 20 years, 10 years, 5 years or 2 years, which would most people choose, do you think. Has anyone heard any talk in their Kingdom Halls about time lines? And what type of credibility does the GB have? If one or two GB member got up and announced Armageddon would take place within the next two years, would this create a stir? Or have most members just had it with the predictions? I suspect many who would not openly criticize the GP may, instead, roll their eyes in private if they had been previously burned.



  • DesirousOfChange

    If one or two GB member got up and announced Armageddon would take place within the next two years, would this create a stir?

    Hopefully anyone who has some past experience with the WTS predictions would not put too much stock into another date for Armageddon.

    Frankly, I cannot imagine WTS ever doing that again.


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