Elder blows a head gasket

by Crazyguy 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Crazyguy

    Ok so today while at breakfast get a phone call fom my daughter asking were I am because an Elder/ friend had stoped by my house hoping to see me. Its been a few months since ive seen this guy and the only one that seems to actually care. So anyway he meets me at were I was having breakfast and we start to talk. This guy has been in the Truff since 1986 baptised and completly blew a head gasket when I informed him that Jesus is not his Mediator. He completly doesnt belive me and while talking I realise he also thinks hes a son of god etc. So I had to implore him several times to go home and type in mediator in brackets in the cd rom library and he will see what I'm talking about.

    Its crazy these guys are elders and supposed to be out thier helping the congragation and they don't even know the dogma. Not sure if he'll look into it but I hope he does then he'll find out that hes nothing in the GB eyes, not a son of God, does'nt have christ as a mediator, not under the New Covenant, does'nt have the gift of Salvation, nothing nothing nothing. I just can't believe it, I mean these are the fools that will probably decide in the future weather to DF me or not as an apostate and they themselves don't know shit!!!!!!! Now I blowing and head gasket!

  • prologos

    that is why they are so eager to mark, curb anyone like you that really sees the ramifications of the stuff that is published.

    Elders are managers, seargents. no more.

  • Julia Orwell
    Julia Orwell

    The Org doesn't want anyone to dig too deep. Compare what you know now about JW doctrine to what you knew when you were in.

  • blondie

    So many jws find it hard to get their head around the WTS definition of mediator when they read 1 Timothy 2:5 where prayer and mediator are used together. It makes it seem that only the anointed can pray to God through Jesus. No wonder so many jws are confused. The WTS dances around this by "clarifying" it with LEGAL MEDIATOR (definitely no word "legal" at 1 Timothy)

    *** it-2 p. 362 Mediator ***

    The apostle Paul declares that there is “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all”—for both Jews and Gentiles. (1Ti 2:5, 6)

    ---Note how the WTS drops the crucial part of 1 Ti 2:5,6 from other publications

    *** w02 7/1 p. 8 Worship God “in Spirit” ***

    Is it proper to pray to Jesus’ earthly mother, Mary, or to particular “saints,” asking them to intercede with God in one’s behalf? The Bible’s direct answer is: “There is only one mediator between God and mankind, himself a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Timothy 2:5.

    *** w97 2/15 p. 28 Agreement Between “God’s Temple” and Idols in Greece? ***

    Furthermore, in a very clear way, the Scriptures rule out the idea of praying to “saints” in order for them to act as intercessors with God. In his model prayer, Jesus taught that prayers are to be addressed to the Father only, since he directed his disciples: “You must pray, then, this way: ‘Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified.’” (Matthew 6:9) Jesus further stated: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you ask anything in my name, I will do it.” And the apostle Paul stated: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”—John 14:6, 14; 1 Timothy 2:5.

    *** w89 8/15 p. 31 Questions From Readers ***

    The people of all nations who have the hope of everlasting life on earth benefit even now from Jesus’ services. Though he is not their legal Mediator, for they are not in the new covenant, he is their means of approaching Jehovah. Christ said: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) All who will gain life on earth must direct their prayers to Jehovah through Jesus. (John 14:13, 23, 24)

    *** w80 6/1 p. 18 par. 11 Praying to Jehovah so as to Be Heard ***

    How can we gain access to the great “Hearer of prayer”? He has appointed that this be through Jesus Christ alone. There is only one Mediator between God and men, and one High Priest, Jesus Christ. (1 Tim. 2:5; Heb. 7:25, 26) Jesus himself put it very explicitly, saying: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6) “Most truly I say to you, If you ask the Father for anything he will give it to you in my name. . . . Ask and you will receive, that your joy may be made full.”—John 16:23, 24.

    *** w66 8/1 p. 465 par. 16 Baptism Shows Faith ***

    Of special interest to one wishing to make his dedication to God is the act of faith known as prayer. When one makes his dedication he prays to Jehovah in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son, the Mediator between God and man.

    *** w57 12/15 p. 747 “Confess Your Sins” ***

    The overseer does not presume to take the role of God, nor to be the mediator between God and men. Rather, as a loving Christian brother, he approaches God in prayer along with the spiritually sick one, doing so through the one Mediator Christ Jesus, and faithfully pointing out Jehovah’s loving provision for forgiveness. It is Jehovah who restores the truly repentant one.

    *** g74 1/8 p. 10 What Do You Know About Prayer? ***

    To be acceptable to God, prayers must be through the channel he recognizes. Jesus said: “No one comes to the Father except through me.” Jesus also said prayers should be presented ‘in his name.’ (John 14:6; 16:23) Thus, our prayers should acknowledge that the value of the sacrifice of Jesus’ own human life makes it possible for us to approach God in prayer, and that there is just “one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus.”—1 Tim. 2:5.

  • Ding

    For some reason, I am still surprised when "apostates" know WT doctrine better than elders do.

    Instead of asking the elder to do the research, you may have to do it yourself and actually show him those articles.

    If he changes completely and starts agreeing with those teachings, you'll know he's a good company man.

    If he shows that he's still upset by them, he may soon be joining us on JWN.

  • Crazyguy

    Blondie, They can slice it all they want but its like the subjects of Baptism and the New Covenant. With Baptism they say "yes you can get baptised as a symbol of your faith in Christ" but they dont tell you that "no your not a true christian and no holyspirit is going to be poured out on you because your just a Jonadab".

    As for the New Covenant they say "Yes Jesus died for you as a ransom sacrifice" But then they don't tell you that with out the New Covenant which came before his death that not being in the new covenant, his death is meaningless to you. Infact Why would there even be a need for a New Covenant otherwise.

  • anonymouz

    I think in principle in the Bible there is a covenantal mediation. But there is also a sacrifice it is based on validated by the blood. That blood "mediation" of access to God by it's forgiveness reality, "mediated" or administered by Christ, would have to come before te covenant portion it creates the validity of.

    Thus a covenant mediation and a blood mediation are really two entirely different things, though related. And the non-anointed frauds at Bethel will not make such a logical distinction. And it is an acutal distinction proven by the ressurection concept.

    Abel cannot be in a covenant he died prior to. Yet in the "ressurection" he would have to be restored not in an Adamic form, as Adam as one temporary life power, but in Christ's human form made possible by blood AND body in that whole life sacrifice. (Heb8-10).

    Meaning a blood mediation must cover all mankind, yet the distant dead cannot be in a "new covenant" if they themselves do not exist. So the blodd sanctification has a far broader meaning tat if Bethel actually contained true anointed rather than "evil salve" UN worshiping frauds, this distinction would have been made decades ago.

    The clue Bethel is a fraud act, is this is not the only example of retaining or never fully explaining ambiguities that merely stumble people in the long run in a way percievable, meaning tey must be retaining such contradictions to engage in an anti-Christ operation, while keeping the pretense and appearance to the contrary.

    No one can simply be this brain dead for this duration in simple logic unless it is purposeful. Like the UN NGO, Bethel is full of actors at the highest levels of control and ownership.

  • RayPublisher

    At my JC I asked the elders if Jesus was their mediator and every time they had to say something like, "Jesus is our mediator THROUGH the FDS" it was pathetic and I have that on audio!

  • besty

    A Christian friend of ours (ex-JW) says his wakeup moment came on field service. A woman he was speaking with just said to him "the difference between you and me is that you have a membership and I have a relationship".


  • moomanchu

    It's so exasperating argueing with a JW.

    First you have to teach them what the WT dogma really is, which after a long argument they finally believe.

    Then you have to teach them why the WT dogma is wrong, which after a long argument they still believe.

    besty I like that quote, it's very true.

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