No Hand Holding During Prayers But Door to Door?

by blondie 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sylvlef

  Sometimes go to FS in order to please my wife. and sometimes the conductor put me to go preaching with my wife. when this happens i arrange to "go and check the territory" for 5 minutes ( all building closed) then "witness in the street", meaning, me and my wife walking casually, holding hands and noT preaching to anyone, during 2 hours or so...but my wife still counts her time as "witnessing time", while just am happy to have a Nice walk with her and don't bother to count any time (I always report the same 3 or so hours per month whatever go or noT in FS during the month).

  So for some JW doesn't matter if you hold hands or noT during (preaching) commercial work, all that matters is the figures on a paper sheet ;-)!

  And show a happy JW couple: always good for business...
• 

  adamah

  Hi Blondie,

  Although it's ambiguously-worded, I suspect the WT article is not prohibiting hand-holding between married couples during prayer, only telling them to keep it discreet if they do; the article explicitly tells couples not to embrace each other so as to avoid stumbling others who might see them.

  In order to avoid misinterpretation, it would've been better for the WT to phrase it as, eg:

  Although some marriage mates may discreetly hold hands, they should refrain from embracing each other during public prayer, as those who got a glimpse of such conduct might be stumbled.

  Of course, we can hardly expect the WT to actually understand the importance of avoiding ambiguity in their writings, since it's not like they write stuff (much less translate the Bible!) where people hang on to every word, and little things (like the insertion of a comma) can completely alter the meaning of a phrase!

  Having been away from a KH for a few decades, I don't know for sure, but is that actually how this WT passage is interpreted in some areas? Holy Simoly!

  On the other hand, it's not so outrageous if we remember that the JWs have no problem inserting their noses into the bedroom practices of their members, telling them they're "doing it the wrong way"....

  Adam
• 

  Phizzy

  "the JWs have no problem inserting their noses into the bedroom practices of their members, telling them ........ no sister, you will never manage to eat all that".

  The thread Title took me back to my youth, when going DtoD I held hands with a number of different sisters on different occasions. They were usually unmarried sisters LOL.

  What jolly japes we had !
• 

  blondie

  adamah, this falls under weasel words...an elder would then say, you have to hide your hands, someone was stumbled (not tell you who) so someone else might be stumbled. It would be safer not to do it at all at the KH.
• 

  adamah

  Blondie said-

  adamah, this falls under weasel words...an elder would then say, you have to hide your hands, someone was stumbled (not tell you who) so someone else might be stumbled. It would be safer not to do it at all at the KH.

  Well that goes without saying in an authoritarian setting! The passage NEVER means what the plain-text reading would suggest, of course: it only means what THEY TELL YOU it means, and even THAT is subject to revision on a moment's notice! And then when clarification from higher-ups claim the contrary to the local interpretation, it's called "new light", and the local authoritarian elders who were wrong never admit they were wrong.

  Ah, the joys of authoritarian dogmatism: it means never having to say you're sorry....

  But that's why I was asking for specific examples of if the WT passage has actually been mis-interpreted in this manner in local congs (having been apart from JWs long before the article was written, I wouldn't know).

  Adam
• 

  NewYork44M

  This is new to me: They might think or get the impression that the couple was focusing on their romantic relationship instead of reverence for Jehovah.

  You got to be kidding. This statement is beyond ridiculous.

  So, if you cannot be romatic during a prayer, can you pray while having sex? Would yelps of "oh god" during sex stumble those who might catch a glimpse of the actvity?
• 

  blondie

  adamah, in my congregation, courting couples were told not to hold hands ever before the wedding............

  *** w12 2/1 p. 28 “Bring a Smile to Jehovah’s Face” ***

  The speaker also examined Isaiah 41:13, in which Jehovah makes this promise: “I, Jehovah your God, am grasping your right hand, the One saying to you, ‘Do not be afraid. I myself will help you.’” With warm sincerity, Brother Lett said: “Notice this very touching expression of Jehovah. He reaches out his hand to take hold of our hand.”

  *** w09 11/15 pp. 6-7 par. 19 What Do Your Prayers Say About You? ***

  There may be a proper time and place for some actions that would be inappropriate at a Christian meeting. (Eccl. 3:1) For instance, suppose someone sought to have all in a group link arms or hold hands during such a prayer. This might offend or distract some, including visitors who do not share our beliefs. Some marriage mates might discreetly hold hands, but if they embraced each other during public prayer, those who got a glimpse of such conduct might be stumbled. They might think or get the impression that the couple was focusing on their romantic relationship instead of reverence for Jehovah. Out of deep respect for him, let us therefore “do all things for God’s glory” and avoid conduct that could distract, shock, or stumble anyone.—1 Cor. 10:31, 32; 2 Cor. 6:3.

  *** w98 10/1 p. 21 Local Cultures and Christian Principles—Are They Compatible? ***

  What if a custom does not please us? Should it automatically be rejected? Not necessarily. The custom of males holding hands, mentioned earlier, was perfectly acceptable in that particular African community. When the missionary noticed that other men were walking around holding hands, he felt more at ease.

  *** w04 12/15 p. 25 Graduation Day—A Beautiful Day ***

  That often means learning customs that might seem unusual by Western standards. For example, in some lands it is very common to see men, including those in the Christian congregation, holding hands as friends while they walk together. In some places under the Guam branch, unusual foods are served. But others have adapted, and the new missionaries can too.
• 

  blondie

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/255343/1/DC-Drama-stirs-up-drama-of-its-own
• 

  frankiespeakin

  Wow talk about nit picking paranoia:

  *** w09 11/15 pp. 6-7 par. 19 What Do Your Prayers Say About You? ***

  Some marriage mates might discreetly hold hands, but if they embraced each other during public prayer, those who got a glimpse of such conduct might be stumbled.

  I can just imagine an elder calling on a person who stopped going to meeting and quit the Corporation/organization over an elderly married couple holding hands durring prayer!
• 

  adamah

  Blondie said-

  adamah, in my congregation, courting couples were told not to hold hands ever before the wedding............

  Not surprising, since some think holding hands is one of those benefits reserved for marriage, LOL!

  Yeah, thanks for the link: I remember that thread, and never really thought about it before, until you highlighted "might discreetly" (which made me think that it was NOT a prohibition, but actually an allowed exception, i.e. "may discreetly", which fits in with the typical JW standing orders not to make a showy display in whatever a JW does, exercising moderation).

  Of course, the issue in the prior thread about the DC drama was whether the marriage bond survived resurrection (eg Job holding hands with his wife WOULD be inappropriate, since the marriage bond is broken with death; and as you say, hand-holding is seemingly reserved for marrieds, only). But that seems an issue that, although related, is separate from whether married couples can discreetly hold hands during prayer (vs "embracing", which clearly IS prohibited: that implies holding someone closely with one's arms wrapped around them, AKA a hug).

  That's why I was ASKING if anyone's ever heard of discreetly holding hands during prayer being questioned and/or punished by elders, based on an ambiguous WT quote. Or is it simply a JWN misinterpretation of the WT? I truly don't know, and that's what I was asking about. I'd say that picture shows a couple discreetly holding hands: it's hard to imagine anyone being stumbled by seeing them doing so during prayer and/or in field service.

  Not that it matters: as with the 1 Cor 6:9 revision in the RNWT (which changed the reading of the scripture, and paves the way for disallowing males receiving oral sex in marriage), in lieu of clarification from higher-ups on the GB, the JW policy is actually whatever some local elder TELLS YOU it is; that's kinda the point of being in a cult.

  Adam