I wonder...

by braincleaned 39 Replies latest jw experiences

  • tec
    tec

    Just to make sure though — you do not believe in the OT as a litteral account of Jesus' Father (or him as Father)?

    As Jgnat also said above, it is not all one book. Some of it is literal, some of it is metaphor, some of it is inspired, some of it is history, some of it is law... none of it is perfect. All of it is subject to interpretation and/or translation and/or scribal misunderstandings.

    What about Jesus' confirming the Mosaic Law as a "good" thing (and as we all know this was a horrid law)? See Matt. 5:17-20.

    The law that His Father gave... is good. Because it all stems from LOVE... and it was meant for people to examine themselves; not to judge OTHERS. Hence, his example regarding stoning the adulteress, when He said 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone.' (more than that Christ Himself is the only one who could have cast that stone... and yet what did he do? Showed love - which the entire law hangs upon - and showed mercy, granted forgiveness, instead)

    The mosaic law with all of its rules and such (many of which were given because the people could not do better, due to their own hard hearts - which is why the law was written on stone tablets, but not on human hearts... because their hearts were harder than that stone)... was fulfilled in Christ. That law was a tutor leading TO Christ. Now we are to listen to Him. The law was the shadow... Christ is the Truth.

    How do you feel about Jesus' family values? see Matt. 34-39.

    Are you sure you understand what He was saying?

    If you love your mother, father, brother, sister, and your own life... more than Him, then you are not worthy of Him. Meaning you cannot serve Him, the Kingdom, the people that belong to Him... because you are putting others FIRST, and you will be torn. Jw's who remain in the religion despite knowing it is false, are a perfect example of this. They have to live a lie... because they love mother, father, brother, sister (maybe even that organization as their mother)... more than Christ. Otherwise, they would follow Him FIRST... and in doing so be able to save their entire houses. (the faith of the one man Abraham saved his entire house and descendents; the faith of the one man Noah saved his entire family; just as the blood of the lamb on the door of individual houses during the passover in Egypt protected everyone in that house from Death).

    These are just a beginning of questions I started asking myself.

    They're good questions. But perhaps you should consider asking someone else... like the One who spoke the words to begin with?

    Permit me to respectfully point out that it looks as though you are picking and choosing what fits your hopes, no?

    Respectfully, no.

    I follow Christ. I 'pick and choose' according to Him, who is the Spirit and the Truth.

    Everyone picks and chooses from the bible. Atheists as well, and they do so according to what they want to see and believe, missing and overlooking what Christ has to say completely, or even the verses in the OT that say things like "I desire mercy, not sacrifice"... or "is this not the kind of fasting I choose:

    to loosen the chains of injustice and untie the cords of the yoke;

    to set the oppressed free and break every yoke?

    Is it not to share you food with the hungry

    and to provide the poor wanderer with shelter -

    when you see the naked, to clothe him and

    not to turn away from your own flesh and blood?"

    I do my 'picking and choosing'... according to the truth that Christ shows us, about His Father, about anything at all. Very often, it is a matter of misunderstanding... based on what religion and man has taught... and sometimes it is simply something attributed to God that never happened. If you want to know though, if anyone wants to know... then God did send us His image and Truth.

    Some people look everywhere BUT at Him... and so they do not know Him, nor do they know God.

    John 8:19

    "You do not know me or my Father," he replied. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also."

    Peace to you,

    tammy

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    My dear tec... You are joking right? " The law that His Father gave... is good. Because it all stems from LOVE... and it was meant for people to examine themselves; not to judge OTHERS."

    Non-judgemental Love??? Stoning gays; rebellious teens (sic); women who cheated because they couldn't bear the violence of their husbands; making rape victims marry their rapists?... I could go on...

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    Must I remind everyone that I WAS a follower of Christ for over 4 decades. After many questions and deep Bible study and more, I decided he weighed nothing in the balance...

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    I had to make another post to focus on the issue I have been looking at. No personal attack here... but a sincere cry for logic and sanity.

  • tec
    tec

    Every law stems from love... or it is misunderstood, errant in some way (during or possibly after the fact... as the scripture does go "how can you say that we are wise in the Lord because we have the law, when the lying pen of the scribes has handled it (the law) falsely), or given because the people did not know better (think damage control... a law that would cause the least amount of damage)

    Christ did not promote the legalism or laws that were given due to the hard-heartedness of the people. He took something that 'you heard it said'... and gave the people the truth 'but I tell you now'.

    He also said specifically, that the law on divorce (which people asked him about) was NOT how it was from the beginning, but that Moses gave them that law because their hearts were hard.

    Can you not apply that... to other laws that are not from love?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    I am speechless... totally speechless. This makes no sense to me. I'm very sorry.
    Does this remotely make any sense to anyone here? HEEELP!!!

  • tec
    tec

    Non-judgemental Love???

    Yes, that the Israelites didn't get... and that the scribes and teachers continued to abuse; turning the law into a weapon to judge others, rather than a teaching tool to examine themselves and HELP others.

    Christ SHOWED that when He did not stone the adulteress, even though the written law said that He could.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • jgnat
  • Shanagirl
    Shanagirl

    Braincleaned

    When I first left that religion, I reasoned that they were not Christians acting with Christian principals of behavior towards one another nor towards those outside the cult. I felt I could still leave and maintain a relationship with Jehovah. But after a period of time I began to realize I was not praying because it felt abnormal to pray to Jehovah. I didn't want to pray to Jehovah because being away from the KH made me feel eventually I didn't like the god they worshipped. I believed he was a cruel mean vindictive arrogant entity, and not the True God and Father Jesus spoke of in the NT. I've come to feel a lot of the OT was stories that were borrowed and embellished from ancient mythology, the writers did not entirely explain all things tru. And so the Jehovah Yahweh god of he Israelites seemed more and more like foreign gods worshipped in surrounding cultures. So now I;m confortable praying to God our Heavenly Father who Jesus spoke of not to Jehovah who Jesus never spoke about.

    Shana

  • braincleaned
    braincleaned

    I see — and I certainly understand the stigma of the name "Jehovah"...

    But may I ask how you view the many references Jesus gave from the OT, identifying his father as the God of Abraham, Jehovah?
    Are you familiar that the very name of Jesus — Yeshu'a — that it is a contracted form of Yehoshu'a (meaning Jehovah/Yahweh is salvation)?

    I do agree with you that God is a cruel mean vindictive arrogant entity. But he is nonetheless the Heavenly Father Jesus talked about so passionately.
    In Matt. 5. 17-20, Jesus even talks about how great the Mosaic Law was... and we both know it was a cruel law, with disproportioned punishments.

    So you see... it is difficult to disassociate the NT with the OT, don't you think?

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