How does the latest translation of Kings 24:12 in the Common English Bible change our views on the date of Jerusalem's destruction?

by Bart Belteshassur 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    The last clause of verse 12, Kings 24 has always appeared to me to be somewhat ambiguous,

    "and the King of Babylon got to take him (Jehoiachin) in the eighth year of his being King." This has lead to the genneral connection of Nebuchadnezzar's eighth year to the start of Zedekiah's rule and thus to the equating of Nebuchadnezzar's nineteenth year with Zedekiah's eleventh.

    The CEB reads, " The Babylonian King took Jehoiachin prisoner in the eighth year of Jehoiachin's rule."

    This translation removes the only connection between Babylonian Kings regal years and those of Judea in the book of Kings and leaves connection in Jerimiah and Daniel both of which directly apply to Jehoikim only. It does however contradict 2Kings 24:8 " and for three months he reigned in Jerusalem." but this could easily indicate a co reign starting at the end of Jehoiakim's third year at the time of his three years servatute in the accension year of Nebuchandrezzar 2Kings 24:1, 2Chronicles 35:6,7, and Daniel 1:1,2 and giving rise to Daniel's own exile.

    In addition it makes the readings of Jermiah 39: 1-10 which has no mention of the destruction of the Temple in the fourth month eleventh year of Zedekiah and Jer 52: 12-27 in the fifth month "that is the nineteenth year Nebuchadrezzar" which doesdetail the burning and looting of the Temple, and the capture of senior officials of Judea, in addition to a military force. The presence of these officials and only sixty men in the city at this time is in accord with the exile of the populus the year before, and their fate could well indicate insurrection as mentioned in Ezekiel 33: 24 five months earlier. In verses 28-30 concerning the exiles of Nebuchadrezzar's seventh, eigteenth, and twenty third years now fit into the their respective years with no need for complecated adjustment to the chronological system and no confussion.

    The only issue that I have forseen is that historians will endevour to stick to the 609BCE date for the death of Josiah dispite a total lack of any evidence for such a date. This event has just as much evidence for being placed mid 608BCE or early 607BCE as Egypt was still just as active in the area as they had been in 610 and 609BCE if not more so with the greater threat from Babylon and no Assyrian buffer state to protect invasion across the Euphrates.

    Can anyone show how the MT should be tranlated and why, and also the LXX although I have looked at this and with my limited understanding of Greek the LXX agrees with the CEB however I could well be wrong.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    It doesn't change any views on when Jerusalem fell. The CEB has misunderstood and translated poorly.

    Josiah's death in 609 BCE is deduced from the biblical timeline and the synchronisms with the known years of Babylonian and Egyptian kings.

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Hi Ann

    How should this phrase be understood and translated correctly. It is apparent that as most of the transalations do not clarify who's reign it is that most scholars do not understand it either. Any papers on it would be helpful if you know of any?

    The biblical timeline from 609 to 597 comes out with 12 years not the 11 required, whilst we can get to 12 years with accension an year consistant application of this method demands an 586 year for destuction.

    Where is there any evidence of synchronisms in the Babylonian and Egyptian records. As I understand the 26th Egytian Dynasty position in the timeline is dependant mainly on Herodotus book2 which many hold to have been written much latter than the rest and therefore viewed as suppect as to it's dating of events.

    I will dig out my translation of the LXX, and attempt to find some more regards the MT, and the Deadsea manuscripts in order to through more lgiht on the translation.

    Mark

  • Over%forme
    Over%forme

    My "Funk and Wagnalls" encyclopedia and "Dictionary"

    show 605 for Nebuchadnezzar first year.

    2Kings 24:12 is Nebuchadnezzar's 8th year.

    605 down to 598 is 8 years. 2kings 25:8-9

    shows it was Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year

    Jerusalem was taken. 11 more years from

    598=587.

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    Over%forme- "605 for Nebuchadnezzar first year"

    From VAT 4956 an astronomicial tablet list an observation in Nebuchadnezzar's 37th year and dates to 568BCE. This therefore gives his first as starting Nissau 604BCE, and that the date for Jehoiachin's exile detailed in the Babylonian chronical ABC5 as the 2nd Adar 597BCE Nebuchadnezzar's 7th year.

    Which translation did you use, which gives Nebuchadnezzar's 8th year specifically in 24:12? The CEB has as Jehoiachin's and most are ambiguous at best.

    2Kings 25:8-9 does not mention the fall of Jerusalem only the burning of the Temple and the pulling down of walls, which is not defined as Zedekiah's 11th years but only as Nebuchadnezzar's 19th year, indicating that the exile of Nebuchadnezzar's 18th year equates to Zedekiah's 11th. The captives taken in the 19th year were struck down at Rilah and 25:18 lists only seventy two of them.

  • Over%forme
    Over%forme

    Zedekiah was the last to rule and verse 7 of

    2kings 25 shows he was taken. He was the

    last King to rule.

  • Over%forme
    Over%forme

    I use the King James Bible. The Bible and History agree.

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    The king james reads "and the King of Babylon took him in the eighth year of his reign". In english grammar the third person his always refers to the last refent person which in this case is him not the king of Babylon. Therefore the king james states it is Jehoiachin's eighth year.

  • Bart Belteshassur
    Bart Belteshassur

    The king james reads "and the King of Babylon took him in the eighth year of his reign". In english grammar the third person his always refers to the last refent person which in this case is him not the king of Babylon. Therefore the king james states it is Jehoiachin's eighth year.

  • AnnOMaly
    AnnOMaly

    How should this phrase be understood and translated correctly. It is apparent that as most of the transalations do not clarify who's reign it is that most scholars do not understand it either.

    As you noted in your OP, the Bible twice says Jehoiachin ruled 3 months. "During that time," or "At that time," (2 Kings 24:10) Nebuchadnezzar's army laid siege to the city which resulted in Jehoiachin's surrender. Therefore, the eighth year has to refer to the king of Babylon.

    The Babylonian Chronicle supports the biblical account:

    11'. In the seventh year, the month of Kislîmu, the king of Akkad mustered his troops, marched to the Hatti-land,
    12'. and besieged the city of Judah and on the second day of the month of Addaru he seized the city and captured the king.

    The only quibble is the year. This is easily resolved by distinguishing between accession and non-accession counting. See also Jer. 52:28.

    The biblical timeline from 609 to 597 comes out with 12 years not the 11 required, whilst we can get to 12 years with accension an year consistant application of this method demands an 586 year for destuction.

    I refer you again to Rodger Young's papers. Contrary to your previous comments on another thread, Young does not start with the conclusion and try to manipulate the facts to fit it, he lets the evidence lead. A problem is that his findings lead one to conclude that, for some unknown reason, non-accession counting was suddenly applied to the reign of Zedekiah, otherwise it's a logical, harmonious fit with all the available information.

    If you favor 586 BCE as Jerusalem's fall, you may be more interested to pore over Leslie McFall's timeline.

    Where is there any evidence of synchronisms in the Babylonian and Egyptian records. As I understand the 26th Egytian Dynasty position in the timeline is dependant mainly on Herodotus book2 which many hold to have been written much latter than the rest and therefore viewed as suppect as to it's dating of events.

    I gave you a synchronism with the Babylonian Chronicle and Jehoiachin. There are several synchronisms between Bible and Babylon, Bible and Egypt, Babylon with Egypt. Certain Babylonian kings' years are fixed astronomically. There are king lists and contract tablets that track kings' regnal years and successions. The Egyptian's 26th Dynasty can be tracked through Apis Bull stelae and other memorial tablets - where a bull or person is born on Day x, Month y, Year z of Pharaoh A, and died on Day x, Month y, Year z of Pharaoh B.

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