Revelation of St. John - More Thoughts on Elaine Pagels book

by Band on the Run 4 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Moving caused me to put aside her book. I decided to return to it today during the train ride home. Unfortunately, I still have not read in detail the portion where she argues that John argues against Pauline theology. She states that John of Patmos is a later very Jewish aposcalyptic Christian.

    The chapter where I picked up deals with how Revelation became part of the canon of the New Testament. We were never taught this material in the WT - not that I recall. It makes so much sense. According to Pagels, Constantine favored certain clergy who called themselves Catholic before their faith was universal in any sense. They suppressed those Christianites they considered heretical. Constantine's politcal power conveyed theological definiton. The rule started out embracing all Chrstians and soon narrowed the categories of Christians that could receive tax benefits and other privileges. The role of the Nicene Creed in defining orthodoxy is addressed.

    She reminds the reader that Constantine's power base was Egypt more than Rome. Egypt had many Christians which fell into two broad groups. A so-called Catholic group comprisiing bishops and clergy situated in towns and cities that conformed to the orthodox Nicene crowd and more rural monastic communities of monks. Thousands of monks were outside the scope of the urban clergy. Athanasious, I suspect of St. Athanasisus Creed fame, decided to eliminate the independence of the monks.

    John's revelation was key to Athansius' scheme. According to Pagels, a reader coming upon Revelation during this time period when find John's prophecy an utter failure, similar to Armageddon dates by the WTBTS. The once persecuted group is now the state religion. Clergy are now wealthy and are elites. Everything John predicted turned out to be false. After writing a biography of one of the founders of the monastic movement, St. Anthony, which recast Anthony falsely as an uneducated, deferntial fool, Anthansius turned to including Revelation in the officail canon. Only A. included Revelation in a closed canon. Other leaders argued that it was silly and false. Authoritiess noted that the Apostle John of Gospel of John fame and the author of Revelation could not be the same person.

    Yet Revelation became the closing theme of the canon. Anthansius used the book to attack Christian adversaries as heretics and apostates. The book was tainted. To be honest, until Pagels pointed out what a failure the prophecy was, I did not notice.

    So the WTBTS is only one high control group using Revelation to attack other Christians. The list is a long one. I feel this history is worth noting. When one looks at the Vatican, the church, does one see a persecuted church? I don't. Rather, the orthodox church became the political authority for Europe and beyond. Wordly princes paid allegiance. It plays a powerful role today. Reading religous history is fascinating. I would cite "inconvenient facts" but the reference may be too political.

    I had no idea that events hapepned until this evening.

  • LoisLane looking for Superman
    LoisLane looking for Superman

    That is so interesting Band.

    I have never thought of reading religious history.

    Thank you for sharing.

    LoisLane

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    I find it fasacinating. Most Americans do not know religious history b/c public schools are afraid of law suits. My exposure came at a private college. Religious history asserts no doctrine or faith. It is merely history. Economic, political, and social forces shape religious belief. It is possible to study it in the United States public school system as a const'l matter since no doctrine is proclaimed correct.

    When I grew up, I thought the Bible was magic. Voila, it just appeared. The WT is very selective when it comes to explaining religious history. Constantine is a very bad man. The WT cannot state when genuine Christianity ended. There had to be a date and time certain when it happened. History provides rational explanations for spooky events. Understanding the disputes between early Church Fathers/Mothers helps us se that they were human and flawed. The books they wrote, the Bible, must be flawed, too. Humans groping to understand the mysteries. We must fail.

    Without the magic power, the WT loses power for me. It always strike me as strange how secret this basic knowledge seems to be. Pagel's list her sources. These events were engineered by very literate and sophisticated men. The documentary history is rich yet most Christians remain in ignorance. Studying the debates in the early Church also brings clarity to today's debates. Scholars covered these in great detail.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Yeah, I'm reading Elaine Pagel's "The Gnostic Gospels", which is highly-readable and well-researched. Like Bart Ehrman and Reza Aslan, she's an academic who's able to take dry scholarly research and present it as something a layperson can understand and find enjoyable (without needing to have a PhD after their name).

    Adam

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    When her book was first released, Elaine was on NPR publicizing it. I just happened to tune in and was surprised. The audience response was interesting. Many people called in to announce that she was incorrect with her scholarship. They knew more based on a fundie church educatioin. Christ would punish her. He would appear any second now. Also, Revelation was the most useful of Bible books b/c it dealt exclusively with contemporary politics we now face.

    I was curious to hear how Elaine would respond. She ignored them! Rather than engage them, she just went on, reciting scholarship and analyzing Greek terms. I so much wanted to ask her what her personal reaction was. I suppose every Bible scholar faces this problem. She did not talk down to them or act as though she was superior.

    I hope it was obvious to most listeners that she had concrete facts on her side and solid reasoning, which may change and the challengers had only rough belief. Many of the ideas she taught me in college have since changed. Such is the process of knowledge. The core has remained.

    She is a dynamic person. First, she was only a few years older than we were. She wore the shortest miniskirts to class. Besides her interest in the Gnostics and NT scholarship, in general, she favored Buddhism and participated in avant-garde happenings. There were male students in the class but after they left, we had a feminist class informally. She pointed out that sons of God were fairly common yet YHWH never had a daughter of God. There was something about the way she illustrated it on the blackboard that prompted me to comment, "F....you, Jehovah." I am worthy.

    The students in class also added to the atmosphere. We had many Jewish students from all sections of the faith. There were Hindus and Buddhists to remind us what the text actually said rather than our church backgrounds. The Christian women lingered after class longer. As the number of students grew smaller, we gathered around and told tales of abuse at church or kH. We were often in tears yet we had hope for a different future.

    It certainly was not the KH. The chair of the Religion Department was also a power. He was much older and tended to be grumpy though absolutely brilliant. His daughter attended the college and was kicked out of every dorm for her antisocial behavior. His father had been the chief rabbi of London. His fame stemmed from a translator's role in the Dead Sea Scrolls. We found it amusing that he chose to hire her.

    Christians in her class experienced a different and stronger faith while the Jewish students in the's chair's OT class experience the same. We talked with excitement in the student cafe about these classes. Boyfriend searches and anti Viet Nam politics were placed on hold. It was very heady. Some people grow up with this knowledge. Geogrpahically, I was not far from Bethel. Perhaps a half hour ride on the express train but in every other way, I was universes away from Bethel.

    I wish JWs could be convinced to just read their Bibles by themselves and ask what they think about the text. We don't need to know specific history for starters. Common sense and basic reading comprehension would carry the day. Witnesses are so adept at WT statements. Members of other religions can take them any day on scriptural knowledge.

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