As I have studied the bible more in depth I have noticed that there is no two tiered set of Christians. As we know the JW religion teaches that only the 144k are anointed as the use Romans chapter 8 to try to show that gods holyspirit will mix with an individual's spirit and then they will know their anointed. All others can be Christians so to speak and they would have the rank and file believe this anyway. But if you read Romans 8:9 notice what it says. "You however,are not in the flesh but in the spirit ,if infact the spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the spirit of Christ does not belong to him."Notice the last sentence, its clear here that one has to have the spirit in him to belong to Christ. Other verses in the bible say that there is no distiction between Christians and of course still other verse say all one has to do is believe in Chris and your an adopted son of God. But does this scripture not destroy any wiggle room the JW's might try to use? Comments please.
Doesnt this scripture completley blow up their dogma?
by Crazyguy 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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adamah
No, since the easy response is that Paul was writing to believers who were then alive; the 144,000 refers to the HOPE of what happens after death, whether being resurrected or going to heaven to join God's A-Team.
Remember, too, that JWs don't believe solely based on LOGIC or EVIDENCE from the Bible, but FAITH (AKA cognitive blinders). They only filp to the scriptures that support their belief and claim you're "talking it out of context" EVEN IF you present clear-cut evidence of a contradiction, since most people believe only what they WANT to believe and make excuses for even the most obvious contradictions.
Adam
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tec
Anyone who does not have the spirit of Christ does not belong to him
Yes, it does blow up their dogma, along with many other verses, along with the fact that there is no reason to believe in two classes of christians to begin with.
But most don't see that through the watchtower and awakes and meetings all emphasizing the WTS teaching, over the teaching of Christ. (and/or the bible)
Peace,
tammy
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Apognophos
"No, since the easy response is that Paul was writing to believers who were then alive"
Indeed, this is a band-aid that is used to smooth over the difference between the two-tiered theology of the Witnesses and the fact that Paul seemed to be speaking about a heavenly hope to his followers: "Everyone that Paul was speaking to was anointed."
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man oh man
Excellent dynamite crazy guy as I am with you on that thinking. Problem is Jws do not ascribe to exegesis. They prefer eisegesis! Until a jw learns the difference their interpretation will be warped by the teaching of men.
http://www.jwstruggle.com/2010/09/eisegesis-interpreting-a-text/
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Ding
Interesting thread.
Could someone indicate where the WTS actually says that all the first century Christians were anointed... when the "other sheep" class began... and where they claim to see that in scripture, etc.?
I know it's all nonsense, but still I'm interested in tracing the development of this in WT literature.
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Gopher
: Could someone indicate where the WTS actually says that all the first century Christians were anointed... when the "other sheep" class began... and where they claim to see that in scripture, etc.?
I don't have any exact quotes, but I do remember the WTS indicating in its writings that the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) was written to all Christians in the 1st century. The New Testament only specifies the heavenly hope. Therefore the whole congregation could be considered of the anointed class (by which I mean those who were baptized).
The "other sheep" class didn't start in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th century but only started in 1935 according to JW / Rutherfordian doctrine. Yes, somehow only 144,000 people were faithful Christians all through the years until 1935, when the "great multitude" (now called the "great crowd") began to appear. It had to appear, otherwise the number of JW's would soon pass the number their religion said was going to heaven. -
Crazyguy
Well John 6;starting in verse 47 blows up the idea of a two tiered system too because he says 'anyone' that eats his flesh will have life and he was teaching at Copernium, but this scripture in romans that i posted above says that one can not be with christ if he does not recignized the spirit, you would think this would make JW's stop and think but I guess your right they will not do it. Also its in the Vidication books especially number 3 where Rutherford really starts the two tiered system. Another thing most people forget to think about is in the Bible the Great Crowd are refered to as coming out of the great tribulation, so since the great tribulation hasnt started yet then who are the 7+million JW's represent. Just more huge holes in their understanding.
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Apognophos
Yes, but Jesus then said in John 4:56 that "He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him", and the WTS associates this kind of language with the anointed who will be with Jesus in heaven. Thus, only the anointed need to partake at the memorial.
On the last point, the GB has just provided an answer to your question in the famous July '13 WT: the great crowd are the ones who come out of the tribulation because the anointed will be whisked away to heaven before the GT ends. Rather than interpreting the scripture as saying that the GT will produce a great crowd, they're saying that the Christians who endure the GT will be the great crowd because the anointed remnant will be gone by then.
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Crazyguy
Well all I know is I have a overwhelming number of scriptures that destroys this idea that only the 144 are anointed and are sons of god and only they can partake, only they have a messiah, etc. Thier teaching is blasphemy for they deny everyone but the leadership the messiah. I realize they will not listen to reason but I can blow up much of thier teachings now just using the bible and this subject for sure, they won't stand a snowballs chance in hell. And scriptures like this one i mentioned in Romans just backs them so far in to a corner for it says there is no alturnitive. Along with this scripture, scriptures like 1john 5:1 Galations 3:26- John 6:47- Romans 14:6 Romans 3:21 etc.