Should an elder discourage military service even if said elder has a military pension?

by garyneal 14 Replies latest jw friends

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Discussion with my wife concerning what I perceive as a hypocrisy that I see amongst elders (and ministerial servants) who happened to serve in the military long enough to draw a pension check. All this in a former life (read before coming in to the truth) of course. I think if said elder were to discourage a young one from seeking military service, or worse participate in the disfellowshipping of such a person if he or she choose to serve, smacks of total hypocrisy. Unless, of course, that elder gives up his military pension checks and let Jehovah provide for his needs.

    My wife vehemetely disagrees and cannot see the logic in this. Putting up straw man arguments like and older one who had a baby out of wedlock discouraging younger ones from engaging in premarital sex. "Such a hypocrite unless that person gives up his baby," she reasons. Another one involved a witness doctor who was giving blood transfusions before he learn da TROOF. "Should he stop being a doctor?" she reasons. Or the schoolteacher who is now retired but was celebrating the holidays at the school BEFORE she learned da TROOF. "Should SHE give up the pension?" she reasons.

    My point is that the elder would not discourage becoming a school teacher or a doctor or even continuing in that trade but that same elder would discourage active duty military service to the point of disfellowshipping. But I don't know, maybe I missed something. I just think that is very hypocritical not too much unlike the hypocrisy I encountered amongst the IFBs whose pastor condemned working on Sundays but would eat out or buy groceries on Sunday (someone had to work to serve them).

  • Bells
    Bells

    I agree with you that the elder receiving military cheques (checks for you ) is definitely hypocritical.... But then again. - this is the witnesses we are talking about - hypocrisy is what they do best!

    They rely on the donated blood of wicked worldly ones for the acceptable 'fractions' that may save their life - but are forbidden to donate blood themselves

    They are allowed to pick up a bargain at St Vinnies op shop, but are forbidden to donate any goods or clothes themselves

    The rank and file are forbidden to join YMCA - even to use the facilities, but the GB can join the United Nations - for 10 years and justify it.

    They publish that priests and clergy within the Catholic Church involved in child abuse proves that the Catholics are a false religion - though when it's Witness a elders in the same situation, they are just 'imperfect men' who have lost their way.

    For me, none of the 'justifications' for the above (or any other) acts of utter hypocrisy are sound, yet the rank and file seem to eat it up and think 'sure, that seems reasonable'. If their critical thinking skills were in tact, they would realise that actually, no - it doesn't seem reasonable.

    I could go on - the Witnesses are absolute pros at hypocrisy.

  • Iamallcool
    Iamallcool

    All current elders WILL discourage military service as expected by the Governing Body. My step grandfather(now deceased) was MS and he did get "military" pension from Lockheed. He assembled military planes for them. He needed the money in order to survive to feed him and my (now deceased) JW grandmother. What is done is done and cannot be undone. There is no way to go to the past and start over in the past.

  • sarahsmile
    sarahsmile

    GOOD Point! It is like elders congregate who served their country. I noticed that a lot growing up. The nice thing the knew how boys should avoid serving.

    I think they should give their pensions back!

  • garyneal
    garyneal

    Bells: Indeed, the witnesses are all about hypocrisy and they manage to somehow justify it. Frankly, I am surprised that my wife is able to attend a Christian university and join the YMCA without attracting too much attention from the elders. But this is a military town and I know at least some of the witnesses there have or are currently benefitting from the military in one form or another. Brother Hero, a witness who I studied with who couldn't explain why whole blood was bad but blood fractions were okay without looking like an idiot, was former military.

    llamallcool: I take it your step grandfather worked for Lockheed in his former (non witness) life. I can appreciate and respect why he would take the money but what I have a problem with is if he was discouraging young ones from serving so that they too can get this much needed money to support their families. The military pays more than what a window washer makes, eh?

  • Nathan Natas
    Nathan Natas

    I am not a lawyer, but any elder who "discourages military service" may be in violation of the Espionage Act of 1917, which is still law in the USA. In fact, some of the charges againt communists Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg, Cablegate leaker Bradley Manning, and alleged NSA leaker Edward Snowden were that they had acted in violation of this law.

    That's why MOST elders will not make such statements openly or publicly in front of an audience that might include FBI agents or informants. Usually an elder will arrange for a private, one-on-one meeting with a JW male who is turning 18 and have a "this never happened" conversation with them discussing the young man's obligation to god.

    Get these elders on tape and share the tape with the FBI. It's your duty as a good citizen.

  • LongHairGal
    LongHairGal

    GARYNEAL:

    An elder collecting a military pension has NO business discouraging anybody from the military.

    Likewise, any elder with a college education under his belt has NO business discouraging college! He would deserve to have needy people knocking on his door looking for assistance if he did!!

    The religion HAS to be held accountable for the shit they teach and the problems they cause to their followers and society in general when these said followers become a drain on taxpayers - MEANWHILE the damn religion doesn't pay taxes in the first place. I am sure many would like to see this changed.

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    I think they should give their pensions back!

    In the USA, doesn't this money still come from the Dept of Defense (DOD)?

    Seems like a true Christian would not accept money from such a wicked source.

    Doc

  • stillin
    stillin

    It seems to me that the elder served his country and is entitled to collect whatever benefits the country has to offer.

    Maybe he wouldn't do it in his next life, or recommend it to a young person, but he has done his share and give him his due.

  • LisaRose
    LisaRose

    I don't really see it as hypocrisy. The pension is for work done previously. It's like a debt the government owed to the person. Most military people make far less than if they were working in the private sector, they accept that, knowing they will get a pension later on. I don't see a conflict, the service to the government has already been done.

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