mP,
Just for the record, several of your replies were actually in response to things written by "Cold Steel".
Your last remark is quite interesting. Pharisee and Farsi are not necessarily coincidentally similar names. I've tried looking into this myself, but did not come up with anything. Very few sources will commit to saying that any ancient Hebrew beliefs came from anywhere beside their scriptures. As an assumption going in, Persians at the time of Cyrus were going over to Zoroastrianism in droves. I don't think Cyrus made his declarations of return in Azura Mazda's name, but Darius the First swore his testimonies in that manner. But if one accepts Zoroastrianism, one also is accepting more duality in the cosmos than is revealed in the Penteteuch or perhaps the whole OT: demons or devils. On the other hand, Hades is a Greek term. Combine with demons and you have "hell".
Regarding the veracity of Josephus, I find this an interesting anecdote. In chapter 7, a few pages after the description of the three "parties" and their beliefs, Josephus continues to describe reasons for the coming war. One was an increase in banditry; another was roving "zealots" who spread new beliefs and had large followings. At about 40 AD there was one led by an "Egyptian" which camped out with supposedly "30,000" followers on the Mount of Olives before Roman guards were called in to disperse them. In Acts 21:38, Paul was mistaken for this man, but his numbers of followers were marked ( more reasonably?) at 4000. A number of crowds and casualty lists recorded by Josephus sound similarly off by a magnitude or two. But there are differences in marking an event such as armies clashing that day and taking a tabulation of the size of the forces arrayed and the numbers fallen. Seldom have ancient historians underestimated these figures.
Cold Steel,
Quoting:
"Your best bet for ascertaining what the ancient Christians believed about the afterlife can perhaps be found with more accuracy through Christian writings which once were considered scriptural by some Christian sects, but not others. Relying on Josephus’ explanation of what the Jews, which were in a high state of apostasy, believed most likely is not pertinent to what the Christians believed."
I am aware of a number of indications of what ancient and present day Christians believed and believe about the after life. There are indications from the epistles that those anticipating Christ's return did not think they needed to resurrect because the return was so imminent. And by the time Revelations was written and read, those beliefs morphed further with a New Jerusalem descending. Yet all the same, if John of Patmos was writing at the same time as Josephus was writing, Josephus seems unaware of these beliefs, though he provides great detail about what happened to the Old Jerusalem.
I should also add that the origin of a eternal life in a restored paradise Earth still sounds strange to me considering other direct Gospel quotes such as John 18:36 ( "My kingdom is not of this world") and Luke 23:38 ( "This day you will be with me in paradise").
What is difficult to ascertain though, is high to evaluate a "high state of apostasy" among a people who we have yet to determine what their beliefs were or should have been, whether Christians or Jews. As you say later with the incident in Mark chapter 12, we are relying on Josephus for a notion of Sadducee beliefs. Mark has not been written yet, but the events are unrolling. If the Sadducees were trying to entrap Christ about his teachings, then they must have heard about them somewhere else. As a matter of fact, from what we have related in Mark about the resurrection, the story ends rather abruptly for our purposes.
You examined some other church writers, but I am afraid that I will have to look at and reply to those discussions later.
Thank you both for your consideration of these matters.
Kepler