by ILoveTTATT 39 Replies latest jw friends
I am a women who left and my husband is still in, he will not reason through on things keeps saying that the core beliefs are true even though he acknowledges there are problems, where else can he go, yad, yad, yad.
I hate the way I was treated as a woman, I hated not having a family life, no time together as a couple, etc.
LITS
The hitler card? Already?
I think women value the social connections that religion brings more than guys.
I think Guys value the power positions in the Congregation.
Women the social aspects. If they are stay at home wives then FS and lunch's are more important.
In the real world (non witness world) I've been living in I find that there are striking differences between most men and women.
Non dating women dress for other women, they comment about about what the other person is wearing. 'Love your shoes', what shoes I'm thinking.
'Those earrings are wonderful...where did you get them' What earrings I'm thinking.
Guys don't comment on the personal appearance of their co-workers or casual friends. Most guys just have casual friends.
Women will embrace one another and hug and murmur sweet words to one another. Guys don't do that with other guys. We give each other a firm handshake and if we want to impart some affection we shake with one hand and reach out with the other and squeeze their shoulder. If we are really happy to see the other person we hug and immediately pound on one another's backs like Vikings. No guy wants his tender side to show to another guy. You can do a bit of that when your really old.
My wife has an all girls lunch or a night out with the girls. They honestly don't want men to join them. Guys meet to do stuff like golf, bowl or hunt together. When younger we would eye a passing female and comment. Now fifty years later we really don't want or need women to join us. Instead we talk about our prostates.
But, hoo boy, when men and women play together...
Unstoppable.
JGNAT:
Don't shoot the messenger. Saying that women around the world, in general, have less formal education, less job oportunities, and lesser pay than men is just stating a fact. No more of a fact than stating that 1 billion+ people in the world live on less than a dollar a day. Men and women.
I am glad that you are a strong woman who thinks for herself, and I sincerely do appreciate your comments, just like everyone's comments. I just ask you to not hinder the conversation by constantly repeating to everyone that you are the exception to the rule, or that we (men) are over-generalizing. I really need everyone to comment on their thoughts, even though some thoughts and viewpoints may be offensive to others.
Think about the world that JW women, IN GENERAL (¬¬) are in:
1. Men lead the religion
2. Women do the vast majority of the preaching work.
3. Women and men are taught mysogynistic attitudes that come from the Bible. Almost every character in the Bible, with the exception of Jesus perhaps, treats women very poorly. I think one of the worst examples is Judah. Woman is a prostitute? Bring her out for burning. Man pays for prostitute? Gets away with it and becomes one of the ancestors of Jesus!
4. Men are taught to lead the household, that they have the last say in a decision. Women who do not agree with their husbands, or worse, with the elders, are seen as rebellious and a problem. The first-world country and the third-world country JW women are incredibly different in this aspect. In the first-world countries they have a lot more freedom. In most men-dominated third-world countries, JW doctrine gives many a "hall pass" to treat women very poorly.
And this is for women in general, around the world, JW or not: They are more emotional. Not that they are ONLY emotional, but that they are MOSTLY emotional.
Combine an emotional person with little education, and put her in a male-dominated, you-must-be-submissive environment where if she gets out of it loses family and all the "social network" she has had, then you have a perfect mix of situations that make it extremely hard to get a woman out of JW's using strictly doctrinal matters.
THAT BEING SAID,
I have noted that women have to see the dark side of JW's to make it easy to go out. Instead of pointing out doctrinal mistakes, point out injustices (have to be local and easily verifiable), hard-to-follow doctrines that are heartbreaking decisions, such as shunning and the blood issue. Make yourself the best husband/son you can be, constantly remind them of your love.
If there is a disfellowshiped person that is close to the mom/wife/other, and you both know that person, it would be a good idea to calmly ask, "Hey, do you think so-and-so will ever come back?" and then, if a conversation starts, "I don't think he is an evil person... deep down inside... what do you think?"
Just my humble opinions.
Thanks
I still think you short-change women. I don't think attachment to religion is directly related to education level and poverty.
For exit strategy, I think it must be tailored for each person, as their motivations for staying or getting stuck are highly individual.
As an aside, in my new job I have the pleasure of working for a highly logical and un-emotional female boss. It's a treat not worrying if she is sending a subtext message. WYSIWYG.
A lot of the strategies you mention for addressing the emotional attender works very well for my .... emotional husband.
Has anyone read "Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus" by John Gray? Gray's basic premise is that men and women share various amounts of Martian and Venusian traits. By refering to traits instead of gender, Gray was able to transend prejudices based on gender. After reading posts to this thread, it seems that both men and women may be inclined to be predisposed to reject logical arguments in favor of emotional attachments or rationalizations. It just depends. Everyone's authentic persona is unique.
The cult persona will behave in predictable ways, so learn how to overcome platitudes that the WTBTS teaches JWs and how to reach a JW's authentic persona. IMHO JWs will not see TTATT until disadvantages far outweigh benefits of being a JW. Most JWs will continue to believe the WTBTS because of organizational status, privileges, JW relationships, identity of being unique, cognitive dissonance, indoctrination, etc. To help a JW to see TTATT, you need to ask simple questions that help identify what their authentic persona values. If JWs value truth, honesty, critical thinking, and being a christian by following Jesus Christ, then it should be easier by showing them WTBTS propaganda. If they value JW relationships, you need to help them to make new non-JW friends. If it is because they feel that they are unique being a JW then you need to help them see that JWs are not very unique by comparing them to other dangerous cults like the Mormons or Pharisees.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
As always, ABibleStudent NAILS IT!!
Thanks for the valuable tips...
BibleStudent I will send you a PM. Need your help.
Sorry to disappoint - I'm actually one of those 'rare' females who wanted out of the JWs long before my husband did. It took me about 1½ years of being almost Inactive™, which started with a very bad case of postpartum depression, and being treated like a pariah in the Congregation™ to do some independent reading, while Mr Scully plugged away at the KH and in Field Service™, hoping to be Appointed™ as a Ministerial Servant™.
Once he realized he was being manipulated into doing lame Privileges™ that nobody else wanted to do - like being stuck cleaning toilets at the KH while everyone else got the better assignments - and seeing how the Congregation™ treated us while I was sick, it wasn't too difficult to share with him some of the doctrinal and organizational issues I had. He realized the Elders™ were never going to allow him to advance, no matter how sincerely and zealously he Reached Out™ for Privileges™.
I personally cannot understand why so many JW women persist in the belief system which treats them with such utter disrespect. Stockholm syndrome, maybe? Or perhaps the reward of remaining faithful - being able to Live Forever In Paradise on Earth™ - is worth being treated like a second class citizen. Or maybe they have a martyr complex - their suffering makes the reward sweeter?
