"Abstain from blood" reasoning

by Wayward Son 9 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • Wayward Son
    Wayward Son

    Most of the scriptures pertaining to the use of blood are straight forward. "Do not eat blood."

    At Acts 15 it uses the words "abstain from..."

    Browsing Yahoo Answers this morning I noticed one of the beliefs that would help identify the true Christian religion.

    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AqBQapG8IiWeDScTTGH8RWnty6IX;_ylv=3?qid=20130728063403AA4oUCB

    Taking blood into body Gen. 9:3, 4; Lev. 17:14;
    through mouth or veins Acts 15:28, 29
    violates God’s laws

    To extract an interpretation such as "[Do not] take blood into body through mouth or veins" - especially after the Jews already knew for centuries what the "do not eat" commandment meant, would require the same illogic that would cause someone to avoid penicillin because to law says "Don't use drugs."

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    What follows is not intended to start an argument, although I know there are strong views about the subject. But I wanted to present another possibility about "blood" (that I've seen the poster "Terry" make also).

    The decrees set out in Acts are listed below. Acts 15:19-21 represents the decree arrived at in the meeting in Acts 15. And verses 28-29 represent what was in the letter sent out to the Gentile Christians.

    Acts 21:25 has a repreat of what is in the letter in 15:28-29. The order of decrees is the same as in 15:28-29, so I left 21:25 out.

    (Acts 15:19-21)

    Hence my decision is not to trouble those from the nations who are turning to God, but to write them to:

    (1) abstain from things polluted by idols and

    (2) [abstain] from fornication and

    (3) [abstain] from what is strangled and

    (4) [abstain] from blood.

    For from ancient times Moses has had in city after city those who preach him, because he is read aloud in the synagogues on every sabbath.”

    (Acts 15:28, 29) (This is the same order as in Acts 21:25)

    For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to YOU, except these necessary things,

    (1) to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and

    (2) [keep abstaining] from blood and

    (3) [keep abstaining] from things strangled and

    (4) [keep abstaining] from fornication.

    If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!"

    The actual decision differs from the outgoing letter with regard to blood matters.

    In 15:19-21 it is 'abstain from things strangled' and 'abstain from blood.'

    In 15:28-29 it is 'abstain from blood' and 'abstain from things strangled.'

    This argues that the one (blood) is not dependant on the other (things strangled). In other words, it can't mean (paraphrasing):

    'Abstain from unbled meats (because you would be eating blood) and abstain from other types of eating blood.'

    If it did mean this, it wouldn't make sense to reverse the order in 15:28-29. The reversing of the order would mean that "[abstain] from blood" stands on its own. It is a seperate item from "[abstain] from things strangled."

    Now consider how Luke uses the term "blood" in both Luke and Acts:

    Luke

    8:43, 44 Woman with a 'flow of blood'

    11:50-1 Shedding of blood of prophets

    13:1 Pilate shedding blood

    22:20 Jesus' reference to his own (soon to be) shed blood

    22:44 Sweat becoming like drops of blood

    Acts

    1:19 Field of blood (burial plot bought with Judas' blood money)

    2:19 Blood - in quotation of Joel apocalyptic prophecy

    2:20 Moon becoming blood - turning red from smoke (same Joel prophecy)

    5:28 killing of Jesus

    18:6 blood guiltiness

    20:26 blood guiltiness

    20:28 Jesus shed blood

    22:20 Stephen's shed blood

    If we take out the two quasi medical uses (8:43, 44 and 22:44), all the other references to "blood" have some relation to the shedding of blood or possible blood guiltiness, as in becoming responsible for someone's death.

    I would argue (and I'm sure I'll be challenged on it), but I would argue that Luke's use of "blood" in Acts 15:19-21, 15:28-29, and 21:25 is in some way related to this aspect of "blood," not to eating or consuming it.

    One might argue that 'shedding of blood' should have been a 'no-brainer' for the Gentile Christians. My counter argument would be that outright fornication should have been also.

    I would further argue that the decree must have been in relation to particular aspects of "fornication" and "blood" that were sensitive to Jews, but to Gentiles may have been considered 'grey' areas (for example, treatment of household slaves and wives - or compare 1 Cor 5:1). After all, the idea of the decree was, not so much helping Gentiles establish a relationship with God (which the account assumes they already had), but rather, to help them and their Jewish brothers get along better.

    It might also be worth considering that Luke is writng some years after the actual decree and its associated letter went out, and after the problems involved may have settled down. Luke may actually be giving a brief sysnopsis of the letter for the sake of his readers, rather than the whole letter in its entirety.

    The upshot of all this would be that "[abstain] from blood" would have nothing to do with any modern (or even ancient) medical uses of blood, or the actual consuming of blood.

    [Edited to add: I had to copy this out of the editor and then back in to overcome formatting problems. I don't know if it involves this editor of Chrome or what.]

  • Splash
    Splash

    All this abstaining in Acts is based on Leviticus chapters 17 and 18:

    "Sacrificed to Idols" = 17:7
    "Eating blood" = 17:10
    "Animals / Strangled" = 17:13
    "Fornication" = 18:5

    Splash

  • truthhurts13
    truthhurts13

    I asked my jaydub brother what the red stuff is that was dripping from a steak he was eating, He replied "RED JUICE" need I say more?

  • Narcissistic Supply
    Narcissistic Supply

    Because the jw book of nonsense was written by some really smart guys???

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    This whole thing is taken out of context, In Leviticus the word "life" is mentioned several times and in the same chapter as well as in Duet. If one came a cross a dead animal that they themselves did not kill they could eat it. So the pouring out of the blood was a act of respect for killing the animal taking its life. Jesus states in Matt. chapter 12 i think, that its Ok to break the law if it means saving a life, and he used the example of how David entered the Temple and ate the bread. Jesus also says in verse 7 "we desire mercy not sacrifice". The JW's got it all wrong just to attract attention to themselves back in 1945 after the war. A truly Blood giulty religion!!!

  • TD
    TD

    At Acts 15 it uses the words "abstain from..."

    απεχεσθαι...και αιματος is an incomplete predicate dependent upon the context in which it was spoken. In Greek, an infinitive use of the middle voice is often used to indicate a continutation of an existing condition And the NWT, to its credit correctly translates it as, "To keep abstaining..." which clearly indicates the continuation of an existing abstention. (i.e. Do not eat blood.)

    The situation is somewhat similar in English. 'Abstain' is an intransitive verb that cannot take a direct object. Invoking the partial predicate, "Abstain...from blood" apart from the context which completes it is semantic legerdemain and ungrammatical. Frankly, people should know better by the time they're in middle school, which unfortunately, says a lot about JWs.

    'Abstain' and its synonyms negate action. 'Blood' is not an action; it is an object and there is no such thing as abstenence from an object. When the word, 'Abstain' occurs in the absence of a 'use' verb, it is understood from the context. Anyone who says differently needs to go back to school

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Thank you once again T.D, for a knowledgeable post. Over the years you have shown that the WT/JW stance on the medical use of blood is totally unsupported by scripture.

    What a great shame that the JW's who are about to sacrifice their life, or worse, the life of their child, for an unscriptural doctrine, will not get to read your posts on this matter.

    How on earth Courts can think JW's make an "informed decision" is beyond me. They are the most ill-informed people on the planet, especially about this issue.

    The great scandal is that children, who had they lived and gone on to educate themselves, would in all probability have rejected all the WT/JW nonsense, are sacrificed to the twisted whim of warped doctrine that comes out of WT HQ. So sad.

  • redvip2000
    redvip2000

    Interestingly, a few days ago a friend of mine had a baby. This friend although still a JW along with his wife, rarely goes to meetings or actively practices the religion.

    Now, his wife had complications during the delivery and lost a lot of blood. The doctors wanted to give her a transfusion, which she declined. The doctors, understandably baffled, practically yelled at her and told her that there was a good chance she would die and that her newborn would grow up without a mother. She insisted that she would not take one. My friend didn't speak too much on what his role was on all this, but i'm imagining he hesitantly supported her.

    In any case, she ended up making it, although it is taking her extra days of hospital stay to recover (despite what JWs say about bloodless surgeries having quick recoveries). Also it seems that they might have to remove her uterus, because of the inneficient blood supply.

    Considering they are barely practicing, i found it interesting that the indocrination that they were exposed to at an early age was strong enough to make them give up their life to obey an organization they barely are part of.

  • breakfast of champions
    breakfast of champions

    Similar story as REDVIP that just goes to show the cult indoctrination:

    Girl grows up in spiritually "weak" household (parents are real losers, to be honest), never gets baptized, doesn't go to meetings or service, but gets knocked up by her "worldly" boyfriend at 17. Disastrous.

    So she's pregnant and there are complications, and she's rushed to the hospital. The doctors talk about using blood, and its at THAT POINT this kid says, "No no!! I can't take blood, I'm a Jehovah's Witness!"

    Classic.

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