JWs AT YOUR DOOR - A Sample Dialogue

by Vanderhoven7 9 Replies latest jw friends

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    After listing to their message

    Thank you for sharing, but I must say that it seems to me that much of your religion is not in harmony with the Bible.

    ???

    Well for example, many of your organization's policies and practices related to baptism are not in keeping with the example set by the apostles.

    ???

    Look at Acts 10:47, 48

    47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

    Jws forbid water – right? Is it in harmony with the Bible to deny christian baptism to believing military personnel?

    Who set up this baptism? Who poured out the Holy Spirit on Cornelius and company? Do you believe God changed his mind about accepting soldiers?

    Why don't Jws follow the example of the apostles? (Acts 10:15 Is it in harmony with the bible to call unclean what God calls clean)

    Conclude: Well would you agree that Jws go beyond the criteria employed by the apostles when they deny Christian baptism to military personnel?

    Note 1: John also baptized soldiers and affirmed their work Luk 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

    Note 2: Paul baptized the weapon carrying jailer Act 16:32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

    Note 3: You can continue the conversation by asking: Do JWs distinguish between soldiers and weapon carrying prison guards and police officers? (On what basis?) They may reply that soldiers must take an oath of allegiance which is idolatrous. At his point you can pull out the pics that follow in the next post

  • Vanderhoven7
  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Wow, that's surprising.

    Why would Russell, Rutherford, Henschel, Knorr and Franz have had to sign Oaths of Allegience?

  • Laika
    Laika

    'Do violence to no man' - I think a JW would argue that this was telling the soldier to resign and a JW would assume Cornelius resigned his post as soon as he got the chance.

    I don't disagree with you Vanderhoven, but I don't know if it would be the most effective approach. Might be better to point to the numerous examples in Acts of people being baptised the same day as first hearing about and coming to faith in Christ, whereas JWs of course require a person to have completed a personal JW book study, had several months meeting attendance, several months spent in field service as an unbaptised publisher, and a theological interview with 3 elders before baptism, none of which has biblical precedent. It might be worth pointing to Cornelius as an example then but best as part of a broader discussion of how everything about JW baptism is wrong.

  • laverite
    laverite

    Oubliette-

    The answer is: for their passports.

  • Oubliette
    Oubliette

    Laverite, thanks for the clarification.

  • Laika
    Laika

    Those oaths of allegiance are amazing. People living in Bethel require their followers to face persecution for refusing to do a pledge of allegiance, something they never have to do themselves, but when it inconveniences them personally they ignore that rule completely.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    Those oaths of allegiance are amazing. People living in Bethel require their followers to face persecution for refusing to do a pledge of allegiance, something they never have to do themselves, but when it inconveniences them personally they ignore that rule completely.____Laika

    So true

    And jus think. Folks in Malawi were under the impression

    that anything that had a government stamp was to be avoided

    becuase you could not serve or / pledge allegiance

    to two masters Jehovah and Satan at the same time

    And yet Every Governing Body member in brooklyn who holds a passport

    has signed thier name to a document that totally disagrees wit

    what they teach the sheep about the Government of this system

    When you open your passport on the first page reads

    ".......AND THAT GOVERNMENT OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE, SHALL NOT PERISH FROM THE EARTH.____Abraham Lincoln

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    Exactly WasBlind.

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    <<'Do violence to no man' - I think a JW would argue that this was telling the soldier to resign and a JW would assume Cornelius resigned his post as soon as he got the chance.>>

    Laika: I doubt that because John also told them to be content with their wages. Certainly John was warning them against misuse of power.

    <<I don't disagree with you Vanderhoven, but I don't know if it would be the most effective approach.>>

    I meant this as only a sample dialogue intro.

    <<Might be better to point to the numerous examples in Acts of people being baptised the same day as first hearing about and coming to faith in Christ, whereas JWs of course require a person to have completed a personal JW book study, had several months meeting attendance, several months spent in field service as an unbaptised publisher, and a theological interview with 3 elders before baptism, none of which has biblical precedent. It might be worth pointing to Cornelius as an example then but best as part of a broader discussion of how everything about JW baptism is wrong.>>

    Good point. I agree. There are so many WT extra-biblical teachings that must be accepted before a person can be baptized. The broader discussion would include things like refusal to baptize people who:

    a. don't believe the apostles went door to door

    b. don't indend to go door to door themselves

    c. don't believe in 1918 or 1919

    d. don't believe Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 BCE

    e. don't quit positions of political authority (e.g.The Ethiopian eunuch Acts 8)

    Add to these every extra-biblical teaching of the WTO.

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