One little lie spoils the whole thing....

simwitness

One thing I remember the most about being "in the truth" was the basic premise that all other religious orgs on the earth at one time or another taught a lie (and or still was teaching lies). This was the "crowning jewel" for the WTBS. They never "lied".

In a recent conversation with an elder, he made mention of this again. He stated: "If there is any lie, then God would not recognize them, or their service..." Of course, he still maintains that the WTBS has _never_lied. His prime example against other org's teachings is Christmas. ("It is celebrated as christ's b-day, when it is not").

Of course, any reasoning about wether or not they actually "teach it" as his b-day vs. the symbolic nature of it only goes downhill from there.

My question for the group:
What would be your "prime example" of an "in your face" lie that you could "prove" the Watchtower taught to it's followers?

I think it would be extremely telling to have a "we never did/said this/that" with a subsequent proof that they did.

(IMHO, this cannot be a "lie" to the outside folks (since they would quote "theocratic warfare".) So it has to be a lie to the followers thru one of their own publications.

Since the WTBS nit picks that any amount of "lying" by another org disqualifies them, I think that applies to the WTBS as well.

Some of the ones that come to my mind:
1. thier revisionist history of thier own org. (I actually intend to show this elder the quote in the "divine pourpose" book where they state that they never published a biography of russel alongside of the actual "Divine plan of the ages" that contains said biography)

2. The misleading "mis quotes" of external sources. The ones from the Evolution/Creation book are the first to come to mind.

3. I love the preface to the Rutherford Light book:

No Credit is due and none should be given to any man for what appears herein. Te Revelation is God's, given to his beloved Son for the benefit of his servants and sent to them by the angels of the Lord.

versus the current lines that they "don't claim to be inspired..."

Your thoughts?

simwitness

Just found this link:

http://www.joinme.net/chuck4002/smythrussell.html

I think it serves to show that the "lie" to the "Followers" started from the very beginning!

(More recent lies are of course even more helpful, since most "followers" will say that that is "ancient history" and not relevant to the works)...

By the way, anyone else ever get the "the end's justify the means" when discussing this stuff with them?

Xander

He stated: "If there is any lie, then God would not recognize them, or their service..."

May very well be what the WTBTS brainwashes its elders to say, but they never put it in print. At least, not that I could find.

And, at any rate, it would seem out of character for them to claim this - their leaders know full well the BS they sell. They (unfortunately) do a pretty good job of not shooting themselves in the foot so directly...

Xander F
(Unseen Apostate Directorate of North America - Ohio order)
A fanatic is one who, upon losing sight of his goals, redoubles his efforts.
--George Santayana

simwitness

You are correct, that "quote" was not exactly what was said, just the gist of it.

IMHO, the majority of follower's (and this included the majority of the elders that I am aquainted with) do not know the "BS" that they sell. They Honestly believe what the WTBS spills out.

If they have followed the societys "dont question us" dialogue, then they do not realize the BS, and even if they did, they would not state it.

Does a Pig "know" that it is rolling around in the mud? If it does, does it "care"? Or does it continue because it is comfortable?

...

dmouse

One of my personal favourites, perhaps because I spotted it myself when it first came out, is the lie relating to the 'generation' change.

The Society taught for decades that the 'end' would come within the lifetime of some BORN in 1914. For example:

w86 11/1 7 A Dream Reveals How Late It Is
So today, in 1986, this means that we are already 72 years into “the time of the end.” Jesus promised that some members of the generation of people old enough to witness its beginning would still be alive when the great tribulation brought it to its completion.—Matthew 24:34.

Then came the bombshell in 1995 that, actually, this wasn't the case:

w95 11/1 17 A Time to Keep Awake
Eager to see the end of this evil system, Jehovah’s people have at times speculated about the time when the “great tribulation” would break out, even tying this to calculations of what is the lifetime of a generation since 1914. However, we “bring a heart of wisdom in,” not by speculating about how many years or days make up a generation, but by thinking about how we “count our days” in bringing joyful praise to Jehovah. (Psalm 90:12) Rather than provide a rule for measuring time, the term “generation” as used by Jesus refers principally to contemporary people of a certain historical period, with their identifying characteristics.

Bit of a shock to many long-timers! Many did not, and still don't, understand what happened. They thought that the end was coming to save their butts from a life unprepared for pension-wise.

Anyway, the fact that now the people BORN in 1914 no longer limited the length of the last days obviously means that the end may be further away than they first thought. It's obvious isn't it?

Not so for JWs; afraid of the backlash that this new understanding would cause, due to Armageddon being cancelled due to apathy, the Society printed this bare-faced lie:

w95 11/1 20 A Time to Keep Awake
15 Does our more precise viewpoint on “this generation” mean that Armageddon is further away than we had thought? Not at all!

outnfree

dmouse,

That was the lie that started me on my way out, even though I had issues before then.

Yep, now that the Society conceded those BORN in 1914 would not see Armageddon (as opposed to those 'old enough to discern the events taking place in 1914 -- which would mean at least a, what? 12 yr old?) I understood that the GB had NO special, intimate relationship with God. It was just pushing the date back hoping nobody would notice that they are no more God's mouthpiece (perhaps less so) than any other religion on earth!

Will Power

Sims:

You bring up an excellent point. All during my "investigation" of this so called truth, the LIES were evident, in plain old black and white. Just when their smooth words, their pious talk would start to confuse... (yeah, why couldn't the world be all rosy like this, etc) I'd remember the lies, the deception, the manipulation and recall not just what the bible says about this sort of behavior but of how this sort of conduct is not tolerated by society as a whole. Problem is not too many "outsiders" care because it takes a real effort to look past the WT's facade. Besides the "conscience corruption" practiced by the borg is so deep the task of exposing seems impossible.
Either way, as long as they keep "printing", their lies are on record for any and all to read.

SYN

One thing that damns them outright is the way they've changed some of their literature during reprinting. I mean, we can forgive the old fogies at Head Office for correcting typos, but sometimes they do more subtle things...the bastards!

The blood thing. Geesh. So much has already been said about this that anything I say would just be waste of bandwidth.

"We don't make rules". Yeah, whatever. Pull the other one, it has bells on.

"We only obey Bible principles". Principles like sacrificing animals perhaps? Or how about committing gender-based genocide maybe? Or getting little kids eaten by bears? Sure...

"The UN is the harlot of the nations" (or something along those lines), PFFFFFFT, and yet the WTBTS was a registered NGO promoting it's agendas for HOW MANY years?

I could rant about this for hours, but it's bed-time for me!

Seven006: "Have you tried drugs? Shooting up a little heroin might do the trick, it's hard to type when your stoned out of your mind. I don't know how TR does it!"

Nathan Natas

He stated: "If there is any lie, then God would not recognize them, or their service..."

If this is true, what's the proof?

All FALSE religion continues to exist right alongside the WTS in today's world.

Some FASLE religions are experiencing growth rates greater than the WTS.

This elder's comment is ITSELF a lie.

joelbear

The clearest one to me is 607 BCE. Dates and numbers are not open to interpretation. Either an event occurred on a date or it did not.

Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE. No one without an agenda hanging on the date accepts the date.

Joel

One little lie spoils the whole thing....

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