Jesus was a False Prophet (page 2)

JosephAlward

Carmel writes,

Joe is stuck in the same rut of Jesuscentrism that wants certain statements and stories taken alegorically, then claims the same scripture will be literally fulfilled "soon". If it was a metaphore then, the fullfillment now would have to be equally metaphorical, no? Well anyway, it isn't surprising that stories told over and over became hagiographically exaggerated to the point that they have lost any semblance of applical meaning. Attempting to prove that the bible is contradictory plays into the same ploy of time wasting.

I'm not sure what your position is on this, Carmel. I believe that many of the stories in the Bible are allegories, stories which are not literally true, but which contain a moral or other teaching. There are many on this list, however, who insist that the words in the Bible--all of them--utimately came from God, and are therefore the "Word of God." I think we can count Larsguy, AChristian, and Faithful among them. I'm trying to disabuse these folks of this notion by showing them that it is absurd to hold this view. I pointed to 1 Samuel 15:1-3, where the Lord orders that infants and suckling babes be killed, as an example of a Bible passage that should not be taken literally. How could an all-loving god kill babies suckling their mothers? It's ridiculous to suppose that the Lord--if it exists--actually did what the 1 Samuel author said he did. AChristian and Faithful refuse to tell the forum what they believe, so I'll ask you.

Do you think the 1 Samuel story is literally true, or do you think that the writer was mistaken? Do you think the stories about Jesus are literally true, and if so, why?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

JosephAlward

On the matter of whether Jesus was wrong in prediction of when the Son of Man would come in all his glory, I've offered the evidence that the Jesus predicted that the "Son of man [would come] in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet."

This hasn't happened yet--no Son of man accompanied by angels and blaring trumpets, so this seems to make Jesus' prediction false.

Why should we be slow to believe that Jesus' prediction didn't come through, given the lack of any evidence of Jesus descending from the clouds with angels and trumpets sounding, and given Jesus' record of making false predictions?

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

Kenneson

Joseph wrote: But what sensible man would think that Jesus
would interrupt an event {transfiguration] which is one of the
most important since the dawn of time to do something as mundane
as telling Peter who those men were? Couldn't he have done it
later?

Perhaps Jesus did. Who is to say? The writer of Matthew doesn't tell us
when he found out this info about the transfiguration nor his source. Surely you are not saying the writer of Matthew was an
eyewitness to the event?

plmkrzy

The book of Matt was an over-view of past events prior to and up to the Christian era. The things we are reading in the book of Matt took place over a period of time that would never fit into a book only 100 pages in length.
Not even possible in anyone’s wildest imagination.

If there was someone running along side of Jesus throughout his entire life recording everything he said and did then we would probably know what his favorite desert was too and how often he took a sh**. But that wasn't the case.

Why would anyone want to spend so much time digging into any bible for the purpose of finding flaws? Is someone trying to force you to believe what’s in the bible? If you don't want to believe it then why not just go fishing or something? Wouldn't that be more relaxing? Damn you must have one heck of a stiff neck by now?

Treat people as individuals do not label them otherwise you become the evil you seek to destroy.

JosephAlward

Plum Crazy asks,

Why would anyone want to spend so much time digging into any bible for the purpose of finding flaws? Is someone trying to force you to believe what’s in the bible?

See my post to Carmel.

I'm not against the Bible; I'm only against people who believe the Bible is inerrant. These folks believe that their god ordered the murder of infants and suckling babes. Someday, one of them may become the leader of my country, or yours, and feel that if their god can order such wanton murder of innocents, it might be alright for a country to do so.

They need to be made to understand that the Scriptures were not "God breathed," and that the Bible writers' view of God was their own personal view, not a God-given one. I haven't found a single Bible error; all of the errors I describe are those which have been known for centuries, and reported by others. I present them to this forum in the hope that members whose minds have not been burnt beyond repair will understand the foolishness of believing that every word in the Bible is the Word of God.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

plmkrzy

Ok well I can see where someone would want to shed light on something that was destined to cause deterioration in society the same way we have advocates to save the Rain Forest or whales or do away with manufacturing anything in a way that leaves our ground air and water contaminated. It's called progress.

But warning the world about the dangers of the bible is probably the least anyone could do to ward off civilizations from turning into everything we've already been.

I don't think we have a future of Presidents sacrificing infants in the lap of Abraham Lincoln anywhere in our future. Maybe you have better vision.

Kenneson

Joseph writes: "They need to be made to understand that the Scriptures were not 'God breathed,' and that Bible writers' view of God was their own personal view, not a God-given one."

Have you ever read "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism" by
John Shelby Spong. He points to the same errors, contradictions, etc. that you do, but still believes in the underlying message of
the Bible. He believes you have to get beyond the words of men
to really understand it. Don't take every word literally.

There are numerous sites on the internet dealing with Bible contradictions as well as those answering Bible contradictions.

It seems that every issue has its pros and cons.

JosephAlward

Kenneson asks,

Have you ever read "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism" by
John Shelby Spong. He points to the same errors, contradictions, etc. that you do, but still believes in the underlying message of
the Bible. He believes you have to get beyond the words of men
to really understand it.

Rescuing the Bible from Fundamentalism is one of the few books I've read twice. I spoke to the bishop three weeks ago when he came to our university for a book-signing. I asked him if he believed that Jesus was born of a virgin and walked on water, and he made it clear that he did not. I then asked him if he believed that Jesus was the savior son of God, and he avoided answering the question.

Spong will be back in February to teach a one-month course on the Bible; I hope to find out then whether he believes that there is anything in the Bible which points to a creating, loving god of the universe. It should be very interesting.

Joseph F. Alward
"Skeptical Views of Christianity and the Bible"

http://members.aol.com/jalw/joseph_alward.html

SixofNine

Have you ever read "Rescuing the Bible From Fundamentalism" by
John Shelby Spong. He points to the same errors, contradictions, etc. that you do, but still believes in the underlying message of
the Bible. He believes you have to get beyond the words of men
to really understand it. Don't take every word literally.

I'm guessing Spong does not place a lot of personal emphasis on "the underlying message of the Bible". More likely, he is willing to split the difference between credulity and logic, in attempt to reach people that cannot be reached by people like Joseph Alward.

Jesus worked hard at destroying a religion. Joseph (not his father ), and no doubt Spong too, are only trying to finish the job.

Please do your part... for the children.

SixofNine

It's called progress.

And at every turn, progress has only been achieved when society took the next step towards logic, and away from getting it's morality (and science) from a book of the ramblings of religionist.

The bible is a far less dangerous book than the koran today, only because it is taken less seriously by its children than the koran is by it's children.

Jesus was a False Prophet

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