Blog post-- Genesis vs 2nd Peter: Lot wasn't SUPPOSED to be viewed as "righteous", but "unrighteous".

by adamah 11 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • adamah
    adamah

    Hello!

    So here's Part I (of III) of an in-depth analysis of the biblical character of Lot, examining the contradictory depictions offered in the Genesis 13/19 vs 2nd Peter's assessment. I still need to pare the article down, as it's WAY, WAY TOO MUCH info, likely unnecessary to make a relatively simple point. It's important to be thorough, esp. when going up against a few millenia of mischaracterizations of Lot being seen as "righteous" (when Genesis suggests the exact opposite).

    http://awgue.weebly.com/article-revisiting-sodom-was-lot-supposed-to-be-viewed-as-a-righteous-man.html

    Questions, comments, blatant errors, typos, discussions, etc. are welcome, either here or on the blog (those blog doo-hickies are confusing: I'm still having trouble getting the comments to work, but hopefully I'll get it worked out within a day or so......

    Thanks!

    Adam

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Adamah,

    Thank you for the article you wrote. Very interesting. I wonder what are the consequences that you draw regarding 2 Peter.

    In any case, it's no wonder that Lot isn't included by Paul amongst the ancient examples of faith in Hebrews chapter 11.

    I'll look forward to read your next article.

    Eden

  • DeWandelaar
    DeWandelaar

    I have read the whole thing (which I seldom do)... I must say that some of it reflects my thoughts about the subject... The whole incest and alcohol thing disturbed me a lot while reading the passages.

    What surprises me though is that even Judah (which was a tribe later on) went to a hooker just because he was horny. You can say a lot about the story but we never get told about the INTENT of Judah. That also disturbs me... he is within the line of Christ and in the end Tamar wasn't a Whore... but... the INTENT of Judah was wrong!

    And yeah... there was NO law at that time... but thinking about that one: if there wasn't a law which could convict Abraham, Isaak, Jacob etc... why wasn't that applied to all the other sinners of that time?! It is a inconsistency I hate in the Bible.

  • mP
    mP

    If Lot was righteous how come the bible doesnt list a single kind or good dead by him but gives us stories about him giving his daughters to a mob etc / Perhaps that was considered good, because in those days, daughters were goods to be traded or discarded.

  • adamah
    adamah

    Hello,

    I've written and posted part 2, which attempts to clear up some loose ends as to why such a mischaracterization could occur:

    http://awgue.weebly.com/article--pt-2-revisiting-sodom-was-lot-supposed-to-be-viewed-as-a-righteous-man.html

    Eden, that's an interesting observation about Paul not including Lot as a 'righteous man'. Could it be that Paul, like Jesus, was a Jew who was raised studying the Torah and KNEW that Lot was always intended to be interpreted as a reprehensible character? Lot's wife was the only unrighteous one in the story who is destroyed as a result of disobeying a direct angelic order, where the lesson is that the unrighteous shouldn't push their luck, as they're already treading on very thin ice.

    Dewandellar, the thing to keep in mind is that 50% of the Torah is laws: it's basically a book of criminal and civil code book-ended on both sides by stories and examples that illustrate why certains laws are needed, and to provide a geneological background that explains how they came to be where they were. That's a common trait of many other ancient historical documents (eg code of hammaurabi also intertwines laws with a story explaining how the kings came to be given authority by the Gods).

    So the accounts in the Torah were written to be heard by a Jewish audience in 500BC who WERE subject to the Law of Moses and facing the threat of diaspora, and the authors tried to blend their mythology and legends into the tale that also explained their geneology.

    However, that approach potentially introduces HUGE continuity errors into the storyline, the most obvious example being how murder/manslaughter (blood-shed) supposedly wasn't prohibited by YHWH until AFTER the Flood, with Divine authority granted to Noah to enforce the new "no murder allowed" law (in the Noahide Covenant, found in Genesis 9). So God seemingly forgot to prohibit murder AFTER Adam's fall, and even AFTER the Cain and Abel bloodshed incident? YHWH didn't have Divine Foreknowledge to the see that such a rule might be a good idea. It also implies that the pre-flood World existed in a state of anarchy, since someone forgot to delegate authority for men to create a system of self-rule (whoopsie-daisy)!

    But looking at it from a legalistic standpoint, the Noahide covenant is broadly interpreted to cover those who came after the Flood: that would include Abram and Lot.

    I'll write a future article on that topic, as it's a point that is widely overlooked (as are other discrepancies found in the Flood account, the Garden of Eden, and so on).

    mP, I'll be writing the next article on that very point, looking for another explanation underlying Lot's offer to hand his daughters over to the mob (and it's not to rape them, or even to offer them up for sacrifice to their pagan Gods (which some have suggested as a possible motive: that would be REALLY despicable!), but instead, for their safe-keeping. While it doesn't exactly exonerate Lot from his seedy depiction throughout, it might plausibly explain his eyebrow-raising behavior in the episode, and let him partly off the hook. It still doesn't make him righteous, though: in my latest article, I offer the answer offered in the Bible that tells us exactly why Lot was saved.

    I'll be writing a sociological interpretation of the Sodom and Gomorrah account, relying on known physiological phenomena which might help explain the superstitious beliefs found in the Bible that might explain why the account mentions ALL the town's males (young and old) trying to rape male strangers (which begs the question, why would all the males in town be homosexual?). You'd almost think the legends were correct: there MAY have been a law forcing them to do so, as if it were their civic duty. ;)

    Adam

  • DeWandelaar
    DeWandelaar

    Adam,

    The links aren't working anymore! Too bad because I am really interested in the next episodes :)

  • adamah
    adamah

    Ooops, sorry about that, DeWandelaar: I changed the title of the articles, and apparently that broke the posted links!

    I fixed the link above, but in the future it's probably best just to go to the main page and select from the site's pulldown navigation menu (at the top right of each page), as sometimes I'll decide to change the title, and must remember that doing so will break posted links! Doh!

    Here's the main page:

    http://www.awgue.weebly.com

    And here's the correct links that go directly to the articles about Lot's contradictory depiction in Genesis vs 2nd Peter.

    Part One: http://awgue.weebly.com/article-pt-1-revisiting-sodom-was-lot-supposed-to-be-viewed-as-a-righteous-man.html

    Part Two: http://awgue.weebly.com/article--pt-2-revisiting-sodom-was-lot-supposed-to-be-viewed-as-a-righteous-man.html

    It's really a glaring discrepancy which is hard to ignore, esp for JWs GB, who rely on 2nd Peter's example of Lot and Noah to justify their preaching work. The authenticity of the epistle of 2nd Peter is defo on the ropes: I've looked, and haven't found this discrepancy being mentioned by NT scholars as further evidence of chicanery. It's really a biggie, and likely effective: I've already used it with a 70 y.o. JW elder who's looked into the issue, and he's now asking questions which cannot be resolved by the organization. Who knows: he might be some poster's parents or grandfather.

    The best approach is to get a JW to defend Lot, perhaps asking the opening question offered in the article. If the person possesses even a shred of decency, they'll be reluctant to defend him, and are somewhat relieved when you show them the proper interpretation of Lot (which, as I point out in the article, is the way most Hebrews have read Lot for 3,000 yrs). However, then the question becomes, what happened in 2nd Peter? I provide a smoking gun of the "Book of Wisdom", a work likely written in Jewish Hellenistic Greek in 1-2BCE, which ALSO is a misattributed work written in Solomon's name (which is laughable, since he didn't write in Hellenistic Greek).

    PS: I figured out how to enable comments on the blog, so either there or here is fine. Again, I'd appreciate if you all would let me know if you see typos, grammatical or spelling errors, or suggestions on ways to make it "flow" better, in order to better get the point across. I fear it's too wordy, as it stands, which only dulls the impact of it's message? Any feedback is appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Adam

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    Adamah

    Just read your second article, thank you!

    I'm not sure if I go along with you in your conclusion (I know you're not alone in it) that the apostle Simon Peter wasn't the author of 2 Peter.

    In any case, how would I make my defense that Peter might be WRONG about Lot and YET be the real author of 2 Peter?

    In an article I wrote recently, I identified the "Faithful and wise servant" of the parable with the persona of the apostle Peter.

    Does this mean Peter was infallible? That everything he wrote was error-free? Consider what Jesus said about the "servant of the parable":

    Luke 12:48: "But the one [servant] that did not understand [the will of his Master] and so did things deserving of strokes will be beaten with few"

    Jesus admitted the hypothesis that even the "faithful slave" not fully understanding the will of the Master.

    To me, it beguins to be clear that the christians in the first century didn't understand that the Master had been present since Pentecost 33 CE, for example....

    Eden

  • adamah
    adamah

    Hi Eden,

    Eden: "Just read your second article, thank you!"

    Thanks for reading! I'll read yours in a minute.

    BTW, the parable of the faithful and wise servant indicates to me that Jesus was perfectly OK with the practice of slavery (like the Torah was), and he apparently didn't object to masters beating or dashing slaves to death for not understanding their orders, since Jesus even premised his parables around the concept, as a teaching aid.

    Christians quote "love your neighbor as yourself", not understanding that slaves weren't regarded as one's 'neighbors' in Jesus' day, since the term ddidn't apply to slaves (who were considered as the chattel/property of ones 'neighbors', citizens who were landholders, etc).

    Eden: "I'm not sure if I go along with you in your conclusion (I know you're not alone in it) that the apostle Simon Peter wasn't the author of 2 Peter."

    Well, there's TONS of evidence from NT scholars based on literary-critical analysis, a historical review of church debates, etc, which are not even related to theological discrepancies (I've identified two biggies: Lot's "righteous" claim, and Noah's "preacher" claim, the latter of which I haven't written about). It's up to each individual to review evidence that led Bible scholars to that conclusion, and writing a comprehensive review of all the evidence would be a HUGE project.

    The main factor in 2nd Peter's favor is that most pastors/priests/elders have tons of motivation not to disrupt the status quo, knowing these discrepancies are ignored by 99.99% of the congregants who, even if it were explained to them, would likely see it as no big deal. So these discrepancies are only a big deal to those who think they're a big deal, and able to recognize a discrepancy when they see it. In fact, that's what inspired me to dig deeper: a claim made by a JW that the Bible didn't contain any contradictions, and it was the first example that came to mind.

    Eden: "In any case, how would I make my defense that Peter might be WRONG about Lot and YET be the real author of 2 Peter?"

    Shouldn't you be telling me how you can do that? :)

    Just realize that 'Peter' added information that's not in the Genesis account, as if to support his "righteous Lot" case, ie he claimed Lot's soul was vexed by hearing the filthy speech of the Sodomites day after day, though the Genesis account contains no mention of anything of the sort (and it actually indicates Lot sought out the company of those evil sinners). That concept of being vexed doesn't come up in the earlier works that influenced 'Peter' AFAIK, since Epistle of Clement credits Lot's hospitality to strangers, and 'The Book of Wisdom' just says he was "righteous" without saying what evidence supports the claim.

    Adamah

  • EdenOne
    EdenOne

    It appears to me that Peter's comment about Lot's "righteousness" stems simply from the contrast with the "wickedness" of the Sodomites.

    Genesis 13:13 - " Now the people of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD."

    In his own merit, Lot left a lot to be desired; But in contrast with the wickedness of the Sodomites, he could stand out as "righteous".

    As for how could Peter claim that Lot " by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds" (2 Peter 2:8 NASB), I think that Peter was extrapolating. Perhaps he saw in the accusation of the Sodomites to Lot: " This one came here as a foreigner, but he's acting like a judge!" (Genesis 19:9) Peter possibly interpreted this as an indication that Lot perhaps tried to moralize the people of Sodom; in that sense, he could be regarded as "righteous" by comparison.

    Nevertheless, your analysis is spot on about Lot's character.

    Eden

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