Then (1960) and now (2013) (page 2)

cofty

What a fascinating post. Thank you for sharing that.

Welcome to JWN! I'm curious about the "apostate" beliefs for which you were disfellowshipped. Would the Watch Tower consider them as such today, 42 years later, or did you believe something back then that has become "new light" in the meantime?

Mum

Welcome to the forum, Theron! I've been free since 1979. Life is a lot more fun in the real world, eh?

theron ware

@jamiebowers

I'm curious about the "apostate" beliefs for which you were disfellowshipped. Would the Watch Tower consider them as such today, 42 years later, or did you believe something back then that has become "new light" in the meantime?

Great question! Thank you for giving me a chance to organize my thoughts on this.

When I was in my mid-teens, I privately asked our congregation servant a question about the inter-testamental period, those 400 years between Malachi and Matthew, two books so neatly arranged to bridge the OT and NT in the Protestant Bible. He told me that my question was “off beat,” and that I should confine myself to studying the society's publications. Being a naturally-curious kid, this piqued my curiosity and I began reading about the Dead Sea Scrolls, Jewish apocryphal writings, and anything else I could get my hands on concerning late Jewish religious developments and Christian beginnings. I learned that there had been other Jewish apocalyptic movements and quite a few failed messiahs. I learned that certain OT books were actually written many years later than we were taught. For example, Daniel was not written in the mid-6 th century during the Babylonian captivity, it was written in the early 2 nd century during the time of the Maccabees. I read books on Paul's theology, and discovered that Paul, not Jesus, was the true founder of Christianity. I gradually stopped attending meetings and going out in field service, but I did not make a clean break.

I discussed my discoveries with a close witness friend. It started when he asked me, seemingly out of innocent curiosity, about the books I had been reading (we were both avid readers). I found out later that he had been asked to spy on me, and of course he was the one who betrayed me.

I received many invitations to meet with the judicial committee. My mother begged me not to go because she understood what the consequences would be. So I ignored the invitations all through college (I lived at home during college) . When I was ready to leave for graduate school, I accepted an invitation and was DF'd. When I returned home from the judicial committee meeting, it was clear that my relationship with my family was now permanently severed. I got on the bus the next day and went off to the university, and that was the end of the contact with my family. Fortunately I was young, unmarried, and had no witness relatives, so the cost to me was not as great as it is for most witnesses who are ejected from the fold. I do miss some of the friends I grew up with, and would love to make contact with them if they are no longer in the cult.

Would the witnesses consider my actions grounds for disfellowshipping today? My thoughts alone would probably be grounds. If they had a way of reading people's minds, I'm sure they would use it.

Although I have no religion and feel no need of one, I have maintained a life-long academic interest in religion and religious studies. After I retired, I started taking college courses in the religious studies department. I'm looking forward to taking a course on Jewish Apocalypticism this fall! I attend a weekly book group at a local liberal Protestant church (they love having a secular humanist who knows more about Christianity and the Bible then they do!) and I sing with their choir during Advent and Lent.

theron ware

@LoisLane looking for Superman

If you feel comfortable to share with us, how have you been? How have you replaced family and old friends? If you have children and grandchildren, how did you deal with that one?

Having lost family and friends, I had to start over. It was not easy, even with the clean break I was able to make by moving to a new life half-way across the country. My childhood and young adulthood had been so abnormal that I found it difficult to socialize and make friends with normal people. I felt like a complete outsider! It didn't help that I guarded the “secret” that might have helped people understand me better. I developed lasting friendships with Soviet emigres who had experienced a remarkably similar “shunning” when their families applied to leave the USSR in the '70's and early '80's. They also had to give up their childhood friends and learn to live in an alien culture.

I have spent a lifetime dealing with the sense of alienation from human society, and I'll never shake it completely. Telling my story helps. It is something I only started doing recently.

I'm not complaining. It is far worse for most ex-witnesses. I'm one of the lucky ones.

suavojr

Simply fascinating story! When you talk about: "I learned that there had been other Jewish apocalyptic movements and quite a few failed messiahs" What would be a good place for me to learn about these hidden gems the WT hides form us...

Giordano

Theron welcome to the forum!

That picture takes me back .....in 1960 I graduated High School and started pioneering doubts and all. My congregation was in New Rochelle N.Y.

After my first year I really needed a change so I doubled down on my doubts and moved to rual NW PA where the need was great. They kept me busy giving talks all over the circuit and had me working with the presiding minister and I was responsible for the Kingdom Ministry school.Keeping busy helped........... so did marriage to a great lady......but we left the JW world in our early 20's. The blood issue and Armageddon finally brought it home to me that the WTBTS had it all wrong.

We moved out of the area and darn if my publisher's card got lost (I was also the publishers card servant) we didn't bother attending another Congregation.

Of course unlike you I had used up my college years as a pioneer. So it took a while for us to get our career's started and make new friends.

Because of our moving around we were never DF so our family never shunned us....a mixed blessing LOL.

Our really great son & DIL gave us three grandkids and we live within a mile of them so we are getting to be in their lives from the get go.

When I think back I remember two great experiences that I keep near and dear to me. The love of a wonderful women and the worlds greatest grandmother...... my wife and ex pioneer partner and the joy of flyfishing small streams for trout.....something I do to this day. It's a spiritual experience for me............. no church needed. I am a secular h umanist.

jamiebowers

Thanks for your answer. Yes, you'd be as big an apostate today as you were years ago. Studying Bible history....what nerve, LOL!

theron ware

@suavojr

The classic work on Jewish Messianism is Gershom Scholem's "The Messianic Idea in Judaism." It's available on Amazon as an e-book. It will help to know something about rabbinic Judaism (which developed out of Pharisaism) and the major Jewish texts (Mishnah, Talmud, Bible commentaries and midrash, Zohar, Kabbalah...), knowledge that Scholem takes for granted. For that, I recommend "Back to the Sources," also available as an e-book.

Scholem focuses less on second temple messianic movements than he does on mystical movements that swept the Jewish world during the middle ages and later. When you read about failed Jewish messiahs like Sabatai Zevi and Jacob Frank, you will see parallels to how Christianity had to evolve (or disappear) in the wake of the crucifiction.

A good textbook on the OT is "Reading the Old Testament" by Barry Bandstra. For the NT, I recommend "The New Testament" by Bart Ehrman. Both are academic (not devotional or inspirational) books used in introductory-level college religious studies courses that I have taken.

Tater-T

thanks for sharing

Then (1960) and now (2013)

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