When Did JW's Ever Make You Feel Cared For?

by Englishman 18 Replies latest jw friends

  • think41self
    think41self

    Nice post Eman (BTW how was Italy?)

    I feel that I am a better person by far since leaving the borg. Not as judgemental, and not so concerned about what others think, but instead about what is the right thing to do.

    I too had some good experiences with people as a dub, there are good people everywhere. As a whole though, the leaders of the cult encourage you to think you will never be good enough, or do enough...that's why you need them!

    think41self

    She had the vocabulary of a brothel owner specializing in service to sailors with Tourette's syndrome

  • Marilyn
    Marilyn

    I'm not sure that I agree with anything you've said. I just don't think it's that cut and dried. Just because JWs treat apostates badly doesn't mean they treat each other badly. They are no better, no worse than any small community group. The usual undercurrents and bad feelings run riot - but so too do happy times with support and love when someone is in real trouble. The problem stems from them believing they are better than "the world", which clearly they are not. They are just the same as everyone else. Of course they should be better, if applying Bible principals is the name of the game.

    I don't think apostates are particularly superior to JWs or any one else. I believe that when we leave the Organisation, we revert to our old personalities. We will have experienced a sharp learning curve and hopefully some major personal growth, but I don't feel I'm much different to my friends who I knew before dubdom and know again now. Time and experience matures us all. I like Apostates but I do not have rose coloured glasses on where they are concerned. Some of them are not my 'cup of tea' and some have the ability to make me feel wonderful. That's life. It's just the same as the community at large. It's why we draw close to some people and kinda ignore others. (it's our own little shunning program done with more finesse than the Org.)

    I believe that the same ratio of decent people lurk beneath the skin of JWs as exist in the community at large. Let's just hope that lots of them find their way to freedom sooner than later.

    Marilyn

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan
    Maybe being a JW is some sort of test that has to be gone through in order for a person to become a complete individual.


    Though I don't wish my experience on anybody, I think that ultimately I am much wiser and more colorful because of it.

  • Xena
    Xena

    When Tim was burned and in the hospital for over a month we received a lot of financial and emotional support from the JW's...we were part of the collective..they do look after their own most of the time I think...but when you leave..OUCH...now when I could use the support of my family they treat me like a leper and tell me if I want their help I have to start going back to the meetings..oh well guess I will just have to work things out on my own

  • Grunt
    Grunt

    Tennyson: In Memoriam (54 - 56 fragment) 1850
    Oh, yet we trust that somehow good
    Will be the final end of ill,
    To pangs of nature, sins of will,
    Defects of doubt, and taints of blood;

    That nothing walks with aimless feet;
    That not one life shall be destroy'd,
    Or cast as rubbish to the void,
    When God hath made the pile complete;

    That not a worm is cloven in vain;
    That not a moth with vain desire
    I shrivell'd in a fruitless fire,
    Or but subserves another's gain.

    Ah Englishman, you say it well. As did your countryman. I agree that most of us so called "apostates" have been through a refining fire. It takes a lot to stand up as we have, not only to men, but to God and say "If this is the way you run it, then I pass." To refuse to call bad good, and good bad even at the price of our friends and family. I think yet another Englishman, said something to the effect of "I could not love you half so much, loved I not honor more." That is kind of the way I feel. I know many of us on this board have loved ones who shun us, not for an evil deed but for rejecting the lies of the cult they adore. All we would have to do is embrace the lie and we have back the children, the parents, the friends. We don't, and that to me is a badge of honor. You said it well with regard to the refiner's fire. Marilyn, the Witnesses and any other cult on earth that rejects immediate family and close friends for the promises they recieve are brass that could never stand that heat. They hug the lie close and refuse any chance of such a trial. If it costs Mom or Dad or Sis so be it. They are getting eternal life after all.
    Once again Englishman, your boy sums up my deepest hopes and feelings in a nutshell. He concludes:

    Behold, we know not anything;
    I can but trust that good shall fall
    At last--far off--at last, to all,
    And every winter change to spring.

    So runs my dream: but what am I?
    An infant crying in the night:
    An infant crying for the light:
    And with no language but a cry.

  • patio34
    patio34

    Hi Englishman,

    Glad to see you back. Your post makes some excellent points. Many who have weathered the storm of leaving and stood up for their true beliefs are much better people, as you say.

    Even when i was a Jw, i felt that evolutionists were more reasoning people than many or most Christians, because they had done a lot of thinking and investigation to arrive at their conclusions. The Christians, if they did any research at all, stuck to only their own side of things (e.g., Jws read only WT writings).

    Hi Marilyn,

    I enjoyed reading your post. There was, however, a couple of things i'd like to offer a different opinion on. One:

    Of course they should be better, if applying Bible principals is the name of the game.
    Many assume that the Bible offers superior morals to live by. But i see the Bible as different, and the principles often lead many people to be judgmental, intolerant of others' views, lower education & income levels, and self-righteous. That's not even considering the Old Testament that includes "God-ordained" genocide, rape, and murder, etc.

    Also:

    It's why we draw close to some people and kinda ignore others. (it's our own little shunning program done with more finesse than the Org.)
    To not agree with someone or "ignore" them hardly seems to me to be in the same category of shunning. I have many people i'd rather not spend time with, in work life and on the board. It doesn't mean i would refuse to speak to them and essentially deny their existence. That is such a good example of comparing apples and oranges, i think.

  • Marilyn
    Marilyn

    Pat, Point taken about Bible principals. I consider my self duly corrected. I have learned something today! It's interesting how you can know something and yet not make the connection. I myself have lived my own life since my disfellowshipping for apostasy in 1981. I feel more than competent to judge for myself what I consider right and wrong. My usual measure is whether my actions will hurt someone else. Although sometimes it's unavoidable - like leaving the Org. !!

    With regards the real world and shunning. I'm going to stick with what I said. I did qualify my statement by saying we use more finesse about it. So we don't actually not speak to people we don't like, we use body language and avoid conversation with them on a very personal level. It's all very polite, but we certainly don't show the kind of enthusiasm towards them that we do to people we like and approve of. (like you Pat!!!) hehehe!

    Marilyn

  • Hyghlandyr
    Hyghlandyr

    When I had arguements with my father, and the brothers listened. In particular one sister and her family that I spent a lot of time with. Her son went to another high school he was a couple of years younger than me, we graduated at the same time (age 11 I was taken out of school, didnt go back until 18, thus the reason I didnt graduate until I was 20)...

    I had considered moving. From my fathers home. Many of the witnesses listened and consoled me. None told me what to do. One elder, the fella he studied with was a bit rude, even infering I could be dfed if I left home, for 'disobeying' my parents. He bit his lip when I told him I would often disobey them, if for instance my father told me to marrry someone.

    The sister listened, her family also. Then she suggested that if I tolerated my father it would assist me later in life, learn how to tolerate others. She was right, I stayed one extra year, and it was a hellish year, but I am quite glad I went through it. However in any case she and her husband offered me a place to stay if I wanted. I am told that at a gathering, she was bringing food out to the serving table, and I leaned over and kissed her spontaneously on the cheek. I suppose I did. Must have since so many tell me I did. I dont recall.

    My wife and I were on our way to cleveland to work. We worked for a witness family, yes you guessed it, cleaning offices. The transmission on the car just dropped. Gone. We were stranded. They let us sleep in their basement on the floor, lest we mar their guest room beds. Typical JW? Some might think so. But I think the brother that came to get us was typical. We called, to our congregation. He was busy, going out, with some girl. A young man so that was understandable. He cancelled his plans. We had no money. Still, here he came..and got us, only an hour drive. But it meant something to she and I. I don't think I kissed him, but I know I hugged him.

    The time before I got married, I was broke. I had been programming, living with my sister and her husband. Freelance. They spent money which was supposed to be for the newspaper ads on wedding rings. Gone gone, the ads, and of course the work that flowed from it. They moved out. We lost the lease. No problem, they were young, so was I. Except I had no place to stay, no money, no food. A friend, who I had done some work for in the past, let me stay at his place. He and his wife offered for me to stay with them. I was there a couple of weeks, just hanging out. I would go into his office, which was also a brother. Piddled around on the computers, they found some work for me to do. The brother paid me, despite the fact that I was fixing problems in my own program. A few hundred. Then one day, a card..was given to me, as they headed to lunch, the entire place. Here Joe, he says, the brother I was staying with. Everyone got you a card, and he ran out the door. I couldnt open it, because I knew. It was too thick to be only a card. "From your brothers and sisters" If I recal, that is all that it said. Not that I could read it well, I was crying. Imagine that, Hyghlandyr crying...is he crying now as he types this? A few hundred dollars, when I finally forced myself after the brother said, so did you open it...I couldnt talk a response...He knew, I knew, they knew.

    Maybe tomorrow I will add some more. Moral hygh ground? I am thankful that I am amoral now, no morals, nada, zippo, a nothingist. Still, were there ever times JWs made me feel cared for? Yes. Just about every day I was associated with them. But then how could you at times be bugged by them Hyghlandyr?! Well, is it not those that we care for that bug us?

    Speaking of which my wife? Bugs me to death! We are always on the verge of divorce. But still, if my friends are in need, here is a bed, sometimes for months at a time. I have had three at a time staying here before...well fed. So yes a lot of times she irritates me, but still things like that make me feel cared for. Oh btw, neither I, nor my friends are Jehovahs Witnesses.

    And if, the entire history as one of Jehovahs Witnesses was only one of abuse, nastiness, pettiness and hatefulness. If you dreaded being around these people, could not stand their hate, their hypocrisy, the vile ways.... Then why be bothered if they shun you? I should so much as celebrate the day that I will be shunned....should such be the nature of the average uncaring witness...like the ones I mentioned above.

    Namaste JWs, exJWs formerly and still currently, my brothers and my sisters.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    I can't honestly say I ever felt cared for by the JWs. Everything was conditional with them. The so called shepherding calls sounded nice on the surface, but there never really was any substance to them, just get to meetings more and go out in service more. You just never did enough.

    If God's Spirit is filling a Kingdom Hall, how is it that Satan can manuever the ones within that Kingdom Hall at the same time?

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