by Cold Steel 14 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
What would happen if a Jehovah's Witness claimed to see an angel or have an angelic experience?
What would the reaction of the church be if one of the Governing Body claimed to have seen an angel or have an angelic experience?
By "angelic experience" I mean being shown future events by an angelic presence.
Rank and File, you would be taken in the back room and reprogramed. If it was GB, well everyone would just accept it because they have an elevator door waiting to go to heaven anyway along with the special GB powers,,,,
At best considered crazy.
At worst considered demon-possessed.
Doc
Okay, if I were a Witness and claimed to see a vision while escorted by an angel, I suppose someone could take me to a back room and cite Galatians_1:8: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed" — but I'm aware of no scripture stating that there will be no angelic ministrations for the rest of time.
John, on Patmos, received one of the greatest angelic experiences on record. And since God is no respector of persons, I know of nothing that limit it in that regard. But I can see why it might make someone on the Governing Body a bit nervous. After all, there is a heirarchal line of authority in place, even though God hasn't exactly endorsed them via the ancient practice of ordination and witinesses. But a person can see the future without infringing on the body's authorities. And I wonder if the person would be any more believed up the chain if the angel showed him the Governing Body and that the Lord was guiding them. What an endorsement! It would be a first...for them, anyway.
Also, the prophet Joel wrote: "And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke." One looks at the photos and depictions from the War of 1862 to Iraq, one can see the fulfillment before them about the conditions in which these visions and prophetic dreams would occur.
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If an elder has seen an angle
he should be sent to Bethel to write a watch tower article about it
never know it may even be Michael he has seen
How blessed can you be!
Back in the early 1990's during a servant Body meeting the PO said that an angel
probably would visit the GB right before the Great Tribulation and give them instructions.
We all 'Oooohed' and 'Aaaahed' when he said that. During the same meeting he said that this system would
not survive until the year 2000.
My Bullshit Meter's batteries were dead or I would have accurately recognized his comments for what they were.
It seems to me that if God were going to restore His system of Government to the earth, that he would have 1) announced it in ancient scripture, as per Amos 3:7, which states that the Lord will do nothing except he reveal his secrets unto his servants the prophets; 2) called and ordained the agents of said Government; and 3) established it through the law of witnesses, so you’re not just taking one person’s word on it.
Claiming angelic visitations is touchy in that even Satan, we’re told, can appear as an angel of light to deceive (Gal. 1:8). (Some feel Muhammed went down that path.)
In the book of Acts, we see a prophet whose name was Agabus. He is not stated to have any administrative authority as the apostles have, nor does he feign claim it. But the apostles did seem to respect Agabus’ gift of prophecy. It’s one thing to waltz in to church one day and claim leadership, as in “thus saith the Lord,” and telling what must come to pass. Agabus’ prophecy was not an attempt at direction, but reflected his spiritual gift. And his word came to pass. So if someone told an elder they had received a word of prophecy, would that really be a form of rebellion or apostasy?
Such claims may threaten to undermine existing leadership. According to the Society, the Lord somehow established a line of authority when he established the Governing Body. And if GB leaders don’t see angels, nobody sees angels, capiche? But why cannot God use the same means today that he did anciently? If a GB member can say he saw an angel and everyone’s heart would go aflutter, but if Jessie the JW says he received a visitation, he’d be taken into a back room for an adjustment?
Many people who experience Near Death Experiences (NDEs) have guides who show them the future or give them counsel. And I’m not limiting it to Mormons, but people of many religions. I just finished a book entitled Visions of Glory about a fellow known only as “Spencer,” who claims to have received some detailed revelations of the future through angelic ministrations (and yes, in this case he’s purportedly LDS). At first I dismissed his claims outright, but on more detailed reading he began to sound more compelling. I still haven’t reached a final conclusion on whether he’s on the level or not, but if his attempt is deception, he seems to really know his stuff. I wondered why the LDS authorities didn’t somehow nip it in the bud in that he claimed permission from the angel to have some of them published, but in his book he never sought to do anything but relate his own experiences. He never was given any messages to pass on. Whether he’s being truthful or whether he’s being deceptive or is being deceived is immaterial. It doesn’t affect the foundational claims of the LDS faith. If he’s right, he’s right. If not, he’s wrong for whatever reason. The church doesn’t take a stand. But had Spencer attempted to glean followers or get any type of following, things would be a far cry different.
So in the Jehovah’s Witnesses “Society” the question becomes, where are the lines of credibility drawn? For active members, if you had a friend who you knew to be absolutely credible, would you believe him/her? Or would you immediately dismiss them? Would your leadership credibility be more or less if your GB members claimed angelic revelations of guidance? And are elders more readily believed in such things over rank and file members?
(I’ve been trying to find a 1995 Watchtower article entitled, “The Truth About Angels,” but it doesn’t seem to be available online any longer. Can someone point me in the right direction if it is still available? Thanks!)
Easy. Galatians 1:8 would simply be quoted to reject it.
Lots of people report spiritual type experiences involving connections
to angels or direction or comfort felt in times of personal meditation
and prayer, even visions of light and the sense of being lifted up
out of the material world. This is universal and has been in every culture.
The human experience is something more than a quest for food and sex
and to reproduce ourselves and then die. Thats why humans create art,
and music. I personally believe that animals have some inner joyfulness,
and even love of beauty. I think animals and people are very similar
and valued by God. They used to teach in science classes that
what distinguished animals from people, was that people use tools.
On further field study, they discovered by observation that animals
use tools also, and some planted crops, and most build themselves
complex houses or nests or places to live. Oh - sorry I digress-
Angels - yes I think they are everywhere, and there are
good ones and bad ones but we all have angels around us.
Yeah I know what about people dying, suffering, getting sick,
and animals eating each other and us eating animals,
unless your Hindu. I have no idea. The first hundred years
are the hardest, is the only answer I have come up with.
As for Jehovah's Witnesses and Angels, there are plenty of
old WT that reported Angels protecting JW's in WW11
But if you said " Hey guess what, I saw an Angel last night"
You would be considered insane or demonized.
Interesting.
Well, the problem with Gal. 1:8 is the wording: " But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." The angel has to preach another gospel to qualify for being dismissed.
Consider the next verse: " As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." See? The same restrictions that apply to angels also apply to men.
How would someone distinguish whether an angel was of God or the other guy? According to these verses, listen to the message. If the angel comes on like "Gabriel" to Muhammad, you've got a problem. Muhammad never had a theophany...he never saw God. He was never called of God.
In virtually all legitimate cases, the person being visited is afraid. He's usually comforted and called by name. The angel then introduces himself and states he is there from the presence of God. None of this happened with Muhammad. The angel was there in the cave, and everywhere Muhammad looked, the angel was there. Looking across the plain, the angel was a giant with his head in the sky and his feet on the ground. When Muhammad looked down, the angel was very small. Plus Muhammad subsequently doubted himself and his sanity. Was he mad? Possessed? Very unusual thoughts for a real prophet. And no one can doubt that the angel taught Muhammad anything but the gospel. In fact, the angel flatly rejected Jesus' sonship, his sacrifice and resurrection.
The GB receiving angelic visitations certainly would be appropriate were they God's appointed messengers and agents.
