How do I convince my scientific-minded, 11-year-old son of the existence of God or a superior being?

by FrankWTower 9 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • FrankWTower
    FrankWTower

    I was about to go to sleep when I found this brilliant answer to a question asked on Quora. Check it out:

    Question: How do I convince my scientific-minded, 11-year-old son of the existence of God or a superior being?

    Answer (by Anonymous):link

    You can, exactly because faith is not subject to logic.

    I am an atheist, but I will not judge you for trying to convince your son to believe in the existence of God, he is your son and it is only your business how you want to raise him. Having said that, from my experience, if you are thinking of trying to give him some "scientific" explanation of God. Stop. It won't hold up. Yes, even for an eleven year old. I have tried it myself. It doesn't quite go down well. Even if he believes your "scientific" explanation initially, it wouldn't take him long to check it up on the internet and find that it is full of logical fallacies.

    Here are a few suggestions which might be more effective, they mostly consist of appealing to his primitive instincts to "override" his rational mind.

    • Fear: It is one of the most powerful of the emotions. Appeal to his fears. Fear of death: Tell him, no God means he will cease to exist after death. No, don't just tell him, make him witness. Take him to a funeral. Fear of eternal damnation (Pascal's wager). Describe hell, in detail, tell him it is real, show him portraits, read him accounts. Fear of the metaphysical: Talk about cases of possessions, demons, ghosts. Tell him anecdotes. Make them up if needed. Be creative. Fear of Uncertainty: Tell him how uncertain life really is, and how many things depend on factors that are out of our control, then gently enter God as a means to feel in control. Remember, if you can't pull, push!
    • Guilt: If you are a christian, excellent! Tell him how Jesus died for your sins. No, not just tell him, show him: The Passion of the Christ. More than once if required. Other religions, no problem, it must have some story of a benevolent God and ungrateful people and how it doesn't end well for them.
    • Morality: Create doubt in his mind, e.g. without God, there is no purpose of his existence etc. Ask him, if he doesn't fear divine judgement, what is preventing him from committing the acts of unspeakable evil? Tell him about the Communists and the Nazis and the atrocities they committed. Tell him, how Nazis used Darwinian Evolution theory to justify the Holocaust.
    • Self-doubt: Catch him when he is at his weakest. Flunked a test? Let's talk about God. Lost a match? God. Pet died? God. Let him experience the soothing warmth of the arms of God. Say, "leave it all to God". You can add extra details if you want, like positive reinforcement- a nice hot beverage. Once he gets used to using God as an emotional crutch, no amount of rationalization can get him to throw it away. Even if he does, other factors mentioned above will lead him back to it. :)
    • Love: Try to associate the love he has for you with the love for God. Introduce God as a surrogate parent figure who will always be there for him, even if you aren't, to make things alright for him, because he loves him.
    • But still you want to talk about science? Really? Ok. Here are a few ground rules. Literal explanation of bible and science are quite incompatible. Really, they somehow got the age of the universe off by a factor of 10^7 (don't ask me!). Whereas if you are a Hindu you are in luck. They somehow managed to get the order right. Nevertheless, avoid that. Say it is all allegorical.
    • Always focus on the upper limits of science- the things it can't explain well. Like the origin of the universe, nature of our consciousness, origin of life etc. Then claim that Bible/Koran/Bhagvat Gita/Torah/Other has all these answers.(But of course they are hidden so you will have to read them regularly and belief in God is absolutely necessary for any revelation). Talking about revelations: Emphasize the superiority of revealed knowledge over that obtained by empirical means (It is known).
    • Quantum Mysticism: I don't think such a situation will arise with an eleven year old but who knows. If he is interested in physics, read The Tao of Physics, make him read too. That book is your friend. In short, it "relates" the quantum jargon to religious jargon. Tell him how many of the physicists like Schrodinger and Oppenheimer were interested in religious texts and how they claimed being influenced by them. This will be especially effective in case you are a Hindu. Those Manhattan guys were really big fans of Hinduism.
    • Einstien: There was a story circling around the internet featuring young Einstien and his professor about how he argues about the existence of God. That one is proven to be fake. Avoid that, it will hurt your credibility. Avoid Einstien altogether if you can. His beliefs were complicated.
    • Beauty of Nature: Be careful with this argument. Before you start arguing how the complex design of the human eye warrants a designer, be warned, that one and similar arguments get obliterated by the theory of evolution. Instead, it is a much better idea to argue about the mathematical beauty of the laws of physics. This is endorsed by many prominent physicists, so that's great. Add to that the problem of fine tuning of the fundamental constants, and it should be more than enough.
    Ok, for now this seems to be enough, try these and see how it goes. Keep me posted on the updates, I am curious too.

    Awesome stuff. Good night.

  • ÁrbolesdeArabia
    ÁrbolesdeArabia

    The same way I am convincing my 18 year old college softmore daughter, (cranking away and has thirty units ahead of schedule) graduated at 15 1/2 from High School (Math and Chemistry just like Billy the Bethelite).

    She respects Dr. John Lennox and Francis Collins (Head of the Genome Project, mega genious Theist).

    Listen to the debate and tell me if you think Dr. John Lennox is bumpkin phd Math genious Christian and Dawkins eat's him alive. Dr. Collins

    Dr. Richard Dawkins v. Dr. John Lennox both of Oxford and loaded with degrees beyond our scope. L

    http://www.fixed-point.org/index.php/video/35-full-length/164-the-dawkins-lennox-debate .

    There is nobody on JWN who can go up against Dr. Francisis Collins (NIH head) Genome Project Chief Scientist or Dr. John Lennox or even Dr. Stephen Meyer, here is another link, let me know what you find with either video you don't follow.

    Richard Dawkins & Daniel Dennett vs. Francis Collins & Benjamin Carson

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPxGnN7RV1Y

  • rebel8
    rebel8

    excellent!

  • still thinking
    still thinking

    Thanks for that video...I'm making to watch later. I haven't seen that one yet.

  • bohm
    bohm

    haha, excellent list!

    Looks like ArbolesdeArabia has another point:

    • If your son bring up obvious problems in the bible, find a Nobel prize winner who is a theist. Try to browbeat him by vaguely-hidden accusations of arrogance, for instance: "this guy is a million billion times smarter than you and everyone you will ever know except Jesus. And he believe in God! Who are you to question Gods existence, huh!?".
    • If your son bring up any obvious problems with the above argument, like its just a shallow argument from authority and we should really look at the evidence they has to offer, or even more obvious, that other nobel prize winners like Steven Weinberg do not believe in God, tell him they suffer from scientism and their oppinions can be disregarded.
  • bohm
    bohm

    • Teach your son some good thought-stoppers. Regarding genesis they might be: "Were you there?" or "Everything is possible for god", and in the case of the miracles of jesus he could learn to say: "but if god exist, miracles such as the resurrection would be a likely event" and the old general the fallback: "faith is a way of knowing, just like science".
    • Offer him some tangible evidence, like the one time demons drank all of crazy uncle Toms jack daniels and made him run naked into the park.
  • Comatose
    Comatose

    My mum and I had a similar conversation other day. Where she mentions experts who think xxx. What makes an expert or a scholar? You could find a scholar who thinks almost anything. You can't just agree with something because a scholar says it. You can't trust something just because a genius believes it. You need to consider all the evidence and review many opinions and form a general consensus. Or think for yourself! A genius or scholar thinking something is hardly reason to go along.

  • chapstick
    chapstick

    Tell him we all live on a spec of dust floating in infinity and anyone who states they know everything or insists that we are zenith of knowledge is only deluding themselves and dumbing down their followers. An atheists most powerful weapon is the hypocracy of religion. Problem is that religion (like atheism) has nothing to with universal intelligence or GOD...

  • Heaven
    Heaven

    Interesting list. Some of these were used on me as a child. For me, the items of Fear, Guilt, and Love actually had the opposite affect. They made me question more and look more for proof which I couldn't find. I could not equate Love with how God seemed to have turned his back on us all (as I was told). If God is Love, then the use of Fear and Guilt in the Bible and religion are in direct contradiction to Love.

    Things just didn't jive with me. My logical, reasoning, mathematical brain could not add the Biblical and religious information up. I was constantly in opposition to the things being presented.

  • Tater-T

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