That's just your opinion

by Terry 20 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • Terry
    Terry

    We've all heard the saying, "Everybody is entitled to their own opinion--but--not to their own facts."

    We all have our own idea of what is tasteful, what is funny, what is fair and all that is called our opinion.

    But, when a group of self-important men start demanding our loyalty because they represent God's Truth---what prevents

    us from saying politely, "Well--that is just your OPINION"?

    First of all, it IS just an opinion because it is a personal view.

    If a men's clothing store owner wants to stand up and tell us with a straight face that the Eiffel Tower indicates the End of the World will happen on a specific date---well---he has his OWN OPINION and we are not under obligation to accept it. Right?

    But, if that same men's clothing store owner tells us the Bible tells him and the Great Pyramid corroborates it---what then?

    Isn't it STILL just an opinion?

    What would settle the matter? How about a NON-HAPPENING foretold event? Wouldn't that put the cork in that bottle? Well, logically: YES.

    The Watchtower Society leadership has a perfect right to make silly claims with a sober seriousness because it is just their opinion that those claims

    are true.

    But, when that same Society convinces people their lives are at stake UNLESS they comply....things are getting out of hand in a hurry!

    And if that same Society creates social pressure to tear families apart and cause sincere persons to deny medical treatment--what then?

    What would happen if people in the Kingdom Halls throughout the earth were to answer their Elders with the simple statement: "That's just your opinion!"?

    How dare they DEMAND you accept OPINION as fact!

    Those opinions have been tested hitorically for accuracy and have failed the tests.

    What part of OPINION do they not understand?

  • steve2
    steve2

    I agree with your well expressed sentiments, Terry.

    People should be perfectly free to express their opinions, including even cranky speculations over what "obscure" texts actually mean. They can try to convince me that 1914 is the start of whatever fits in at the time; they can warn me that 1925 2025 and 1975 2075 are Biblically significant dates. Go to it with all the vigor you can muster, brothers!

    However, when they not only ask but demand my full and unconditional agreement, they've crossed a line. And when they exert force on my family and friends to "punish" me because I've had the audacity to not agree fully with their changing teachings they've more than crossed a line - they've assumed the hubristic mantle reserved for perfect beings we call "Gods".

    In requiring me to follow all their teachings upon pain of being shunned the GB commits its most heinous act of all: Elevating themselves to the status of Gods. In any other context, they'd fully deserve a face full of rotten eggs and tomatoes... but I want no part in inadvertently catering to their religious need to be persecuted to add stoical suffering value to their stupid specualtions.

  • Sayswho
    Sayswho

    Makes perfect sense to me (they are guilty)...But, when that same Society convinces people their lives are at stake UNLESS they comply....things are getting out of hand in a hurry!

    Sw

  • Finkelstein
    Finkelstein

    But my opinion creates power and control to myself and therefore contains much self appreciative value.

    So don't mess with my opinion buddy.

    Simple espoused words are my power, how easy is that !

  • fedup
    fedup

    Terry:

    Your point made me think of the book, The Age of Reason. I went back to some hi-lited points I made and found this. Check what was written.

    " As to the Christian system of faith, it appears to me as a species of Atheism- a sort of religious denial of God. It professes to believe in a man rather than in God. It is a compound made up chiefly of Manism with but little Deism, and is as near to Atheism as twilight is to darkness. It introduces between man and his Maker an opaque body, which it calls a Redeemer, as the moon introduces her opaque self between the earth and the sun, and it produces by this means a religious, or an irreligious, eclipse of light. It has put the whole orbit of reason into shade... As to the theology that is now studied in its place, it is the study of human opinions and of human fancies concerning God. It is not the study of God himself in the works that he has made, but in the works or writings that man has made" - Thomas Paine

    This book and COC are must read books.

  • steve2
    steve2
    As to the theology that is now studied in its place, it is the study of human opinions and of human fancies concerning God. It is not the study of God himself in the works that he has made, but in the works or writings that man has made" - Thomas Paine

    Sobering and humbling words. Trouble is, if religious organizations took those words to heart, they'd do themselves out of the dire need for living men to be their religious authorities.

  • Larsinger58
    Larsinger58

    Hi Terry. Always thoughtful and intelligent posts!

    But you failed to emphasize that the GB claims that their "inspiration" is from holy spirit. That complicates things!

    We of the "anointed" are told to test every inspired expression to see if it comes from God. So some of the things the WTS says is indeed inspired, but some of them are not. The reason they don't have 100% accuracy is because they were corrupted early on. The parable of the wheat and weeds is about the WTS! Before the organization really got going, that is, before the new blades of wheat begin to show, the weeds were already there that were sown by Satan. Russell was right there early on with his pyramidology, which is linked to Freemasonry! The "weeds" mean more than just weeds though. In "The Mysteries" a fungus grew on tares that was used as part of their ritual, so a "weed" is a reference to the infiltration of paganism, later linked to Freemasonry.

    But in this prophetic parable, we find that a decision was made not to separate the weeds from the wheat at this early stage. So even though Russell had infected this new sect with Freemasonry and pyramidology, etc. the decision was made to still use this organization to preach the "good news" and to produce the Christian Christ, even though infected. "Let the wheat and weeds grow up togehter until the HARVEST!"

    Thus you have an organization of wheat and weeds. That means some of their teachings are inspired and correct, and some are not! Even so, until the harvest, which is when the Christ would arrive near the end of that generation (1914-1994), this organization would be used to spread the "good news" and some vital truths, though infected with weedy teachings that were not true. But when the messiah arrives a separation would take place and the false teachings and teachers would be separated from the true.

    Now you have a choice here. Christ could go in and throw out the false teachers and purify this organization. OR... He could separateout his own sheep, the "little flock" and abandon the organization to the goats. The latter has taken place.

    So you're here talking about their OPINION. But are some of their claims and beliefs backed up by the Bible? Sure!

    The Bible speaks of a paradise earth where righteous people will be on the earth. Chistendom doesn't teach that! But it's right there in the Bible!

    The WTS understands a limited number will be king-priests. Now common sense tells you everybody can't be a king-priest, because who are they going to serve? Now the WTS is wrong about the number of 144,000 being the complete number. But even so, they do recognize the "bride of Christ" is a limited number. The 144K are natural Jews, making up 1/10th of the whole, meaning the total number is 1,440,000,which is something they did not have insight for (Isa 6:13). Even so, no one in Christendom that I know of recognizes a paradize earth with righteous people on it, or a limited number that will chosen to be Christ's bride and go to heaven!

    See? That's the mixture of the wheat and weeds! They have got some of the basics correct, but not the specifics!

    Same with the teaching that Christ is Michael the archangel. Now you say that's their opinion. But some of us out there have the option to check this against what the Bible says! When you do that investigation, indeed, Christ turns out to be Michael the archangel! Now they got that right. That's certainly inspired/. But that is not what Christendom is teaching who are bamboozled behind the trinity doctrine!

    Point being, you have witnesses who know that even if you can show some false teachings by the WTS, they know no public organization in Christendom has anything near the truth that the WTS has! They are certainly not going to adopt the trinity doctrine!

    So it is COMPLEX, Terry. There are those of us who still believe the Bible and when we check things out, the WTS has more truth than anyone out there in Christendom. We can see the WTS is the "true temple" though we know it is also corrupt. So it's not black and white. It is not all truth and no lies.

    So by all means, consider everything you read in the Watchtower as "opinion" until you test it against what the Bible says! If it tests well, then you consider it "inspired"; if not, then it is indeed just an "opinion" and a false teaching!

    NOW HERE ARE SOME BAD AND WRONG "OPINIONS" OF THE WTS:

    1. The Bible says if you're at the home of an unbeliever, don't ask questions! That means that eating blood is only a restriction when you're with believers with weak consciences! So it is their "opinion" that "abstain from blood" applies to all Christians now, while they ignore the clear instruction not to worry about it when you're with unbelievers! So the idea that abstaining from blood still is a dietary restriction for Christians is false and an OPINION!

    2. No where does the Bible say that POLYGAMY is non-Christian! The Bible restricts positions in the congregation to those with "one wife" and obviously to those who are single. But that's a qualification for a position in the congregation! That doesn't mean someone with more than one wife is to be disfellowshipped or that he has to now divorce his secondary wife or wives!!! It is their OPINION that this is God's will or the new Christian requirement, but it is NOT!

    3. Where in the Bible does it say you can't chew tobacco? THERE ARE NO DIETARY RESTRICTIONS FOR CHRISTIANS!!! Not tobacco, not blood...nothing! So they came up with an "opinion" that tobacco use is a disfellowshipping offense! But that is not inspired. NOTHING taken into the body can defile you. That's what the scriptures say. The WTS says, tobacco and blood products can defile you, so they came up with this false teaching on their own!

    4. Now, it turns out to be "inspired" that the "7 times" prophecy really is 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem to the 2nd coming! That's inspired to understand that. BUT, it is applied to the wrong dating. The Persians tried to cover their claim that Xerxes had died and that another king, "Artaxerxes", his son was now ruling. In reality, Xerxes used the second name of Artaxerxes and then decided to fake his death and claim "Artaxerxes" was a different king than himself! This was politics. It fooled the Greeks, it worked. Fine. But later on, to cover their tracks, they manipulated the historical records and expanded the timeline. When all was said and done, the NB Period was some 26 years too short and the Persian Period was some 82 years too long! So while the 2520 years was"inspired", they made a wrong choice to have an "opinion" that 539 BCE was a good "pivotal date" for dating this period. WRONG. This has now been corrected. The 2520 years must not be applied to the original date for the fall of Jerusalem, which is 529 BCE and not 607 BCE. So you see? A mixture of wheat and weeds!

    SO TERRY, the main problem facing witnesses who are looking at these things and who totally agree with you that some of what the WTS claims is pure "opinion" leaves them with no choice of where to go! They can see the false teachings, but they also see the inspiration! Ultimately, they "settle" and decide that even if this organization is "imperfect", it is still better than Christendom, so they stay.

    So from those on the high-end of spiritual things, the "anointed", etc. it's not simply "opinion" involved. It's more complex than that with this particular organization, because for many witnesses, it is clear they are the chosen, true "temple" which they are! Or I should, they were until 1996! 1996 ends all covenants with both Jews and gentile Christians! The covenant is now fulfilled by the sealed anointed ones, the actual ones chosen to be the bride of Christ. The true religion and the true temple is now made up of the spiritual chosen ones, not the visible earthly organization which served its purpose from 1886-1996.

    Now TRUE CHRISTIANS will rely on the Bible and they will see their way clear to leave the "broad road" now leading off into destruction! They follow the narrow path of their own individual relationship with God and Christ. But those who can't see doing that, those who love and worship the WTS and the GB and the FDS god, can't see their way clear of leaving, because they value the Watchtower more than the Bible, so they stay with the organization, which is the "broad road leading off into destruction."

    So ultimately, just finding fault with the WTS is not good enough. If you don't take an aggressie, individual search for truth and God, then you won't be able to find your way to where Christ is gathering his "other sheep".

    But THANKS, again, for makiong us THINK! This is going in the right direction!

  • Zordino
    Zordino

    Lars, your posts give me a Headache dude. LoL

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    Thanks Terry, I had already thought some time ago of using the word "opinon" when a JW mentioned the "Truth" , I thougt I might gently say something like:

    "Well, it cannot be called truth, it is simply man's opinion, no more valid than another man's opinion".

    I think that is likely to engender a discussion, I have not had the chance to use it yet, my contact with JW's is a rare event, but I will post here if it works.

  • moshe
    moshe

    Well, 40-50 years ago the WT impressed new people- love, organization, dazzling 5 day assemblies with apocalypic endtimes talks ( an amazing hot meal service, too) that promised they could get you and your family safe passage through Armageddon- if you were a baptised, dedicated, official working/preaching JW. They painted a scary time of the end, that they convinced us was going to end in just a few more years-- time was of the essence- it only took six months to study that little blue Truth book and obtain your ticket from the elders .

    Today, the smart people are jumping ship- listen to Terry and stop being stooges for the old Governing Body geezers at Watchtower headquarters.

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