by man in black 17 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Several times on this board I have read comments from people who were considering joining a new religion. And how a jw baptism was not "valid", so there should be no problem while getting ready to join the new church.
If a baptism is not real, what about other aspects of life,, such as a marriage ? Outside of the legal requirements that are written down and recorded, from a spiritual standpoint, is it just a bunch of nonsense ?
I'd says this depends on ones state at the time of the marriage. I personally only married the first time out of a sense of duty. I didn't love him. Since we'd never been allowed to be alone together, I didn't even really know him. When I left, I didn't feel like I'd really broken a bond with him. He wasn't right for me. I wasn't right for him. I honestly just wanted a way out of my house.
I am married now & it doesn't feel like the second time for me. My heart was never in the first one. My commitment to my husband feels like a real one now. The paper and ceremony were really just a celebration of our love. I'd already chosen him in my heart. To me that is the difference.
However, many JWs do marry for love. Some even leave together and still consider themselves married. There is not a problem with that. I'm sure that some even choose to renew their vows within their new religion to make their new relationship with god a part of their marriage.
I suppose I'd say the same about baptism as well. When I was baptized, I did it to be allowed to date my now ex-husband. I didn't say the prayer beforehand like I was supposed to. I didn't even respond when they asked the questions. I just stood in line and got dunked. I do not consider myself to be baptized at all. If I belived in god and wanted to join a church, I would be baptized properly.
thank you vajeni82, your comments are right on the mark. Doing something because you want, and feel it to be important is the key.
I'm glad that I made some sense.
Baptism in the true application is a vow to God (not an organization).... marriage is a vow before God to another person
vow n. An earnest promise to perform a specified act or behave in a certain manner, especially a solemn promise to live and act in accordance with
If a baptism is not real, what about other aspects of life,, such as a marriage ? Outside of the legal requirements that are written down and recorded, from a spiritual standpoint, is it just a bunch of nonsense ?
Vows are vows , commitment to vows is what is not real if not done with proper motive or mature knowledge of what is involved
notice earnest promise... solemn promise
Do people thoroughly realize that the power of vows ? If we do not make vows and do not have a goal, we will not be able to generate any power in our daily life, our speech, and our actions. Therefore, vows are extremely important.
Don't see anyone signing or registering legal docs to get baptized, but I'm sure that'll be next....
Caliber- You are absolutely correct. At the time of my baptism and first marriage, I was a teenager. I didn't understand what I was really supposed to be doing. In the warped JW world, it was hard to understand up from down at times. Since leaving I have VOWED to myself to never again be pressured into making a commitment under duress or because of a sense of duty or expectatation. I regret being in a postition of living a lie. I will not do that again!
Mind Blown- I could see that happening too. If only the courts would recognize it, the WTBTS would probably start with the lawsuits! I believe Scientology has a million year contract for their members, maybe the GB will take note. I wonder if the little kids would be allowed to sign in crayon?
I consider that there are two very different situations here.
Baptism : If you felt that it was really a lifelong dedication to God, wherever that took you, then I guess it is still valid. Most people however had other reasons to be dunked and were baptized into the J W movement. I do not consider that a valid vow, since the other side of the party let down their promises and were not who they claim to be.
Marriage : It is not possible to seperate the J W marriage from the legal State registered marriage, which is binding in law and breakable only by the laws of the State....
man in black:
That is a good question. Although I don't know if I can exactly compare a JW baptism to somebody getting married. Unless, of course, the woman were veiled and you got somebody ELSE!
You feel it is a matter of "loyalty" but what if it were under false pretenses. How does loyalty enter into the picture?
I feel I was deceived when I became a JW. They didn't lay all their cards on the table and it was like the proverbial iceberg with two-thirds hidden under water.
If you ask me, that should make it null and void.
